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The FReeper Foxhole Remembers the Air Campaign Against Rabaul (11/1943) - July 28th, 2005
World War II Magazine | November 1999 | Jon Guttman

Posted on 07/27/2005 9:00:37 PM PDT by SAMWolf



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.


.................................................................. .................... ...........................................

U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues

Where Duty, Honor and Country
are acknowledged, affirmed and commemorated.

Our Mission:

The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans.

In the FReeper Foxhole, Veterans or their family members should feel free to address their specific circumstances or whatever issues concern them in an atmosphere of peace, understanding, brotherhood and support.

The FReeper Foxhole hopes to share with it's readers an open forum where we can learn about and discuss military history, military news and other topics of concern or interest to our readers be they Veteran's, Current Duty or anyone interested in what we have to offer.

If the Foxhole makes someone appreciate, even a little, what others have sacrificed for us, then it has accomplished one of it's missions.

We hope the Foxhole in some small way helps us to remember and honor those who came before us.

To read previous Foxhole threads or
to add the Foxhole to your sidebar,
click on the books below.

Free-for-All Over Rabaul

After months of minor raiding, the U.S. Navy's new aircraft carriers took on a major target when they attacked Japan's key bastion in the Solomons in November 1943.

The abandonment of Guadalcanal by Japanese forces in February 1943 ended a grueling six-month campaign and brought the first American offensive operation of World War II to a victorious conclusion. It was, however, only the beginning of a difficult Allied advance through the Solomon Islands, attended by savage fighting on land, at sea and in the air. At the northwestern end of the island chain the Japanese directed their defensive efforts from a well-developed naval base on New Britain, the name of which soon became notorious among all Allied servicemen in the South Pacific: Rabaul.



It was from Rabaul that Japanese warships and aircraft were staged before being hurled south against the advancing Allies. Rabaul in turn was frequently the target of air raids by the U.S. Army's Fifth and Thirteenth air forces, the U.S. Marines, and the Royal Australian and Royal New Zealand air forces. Regardless of the outcome of such attacks, the Allies could almost invariably count on a hot reception from air groups, or kokutais, of Mitsubishi A6M Zeros, flown by the best pilots in the Japanese navy, and from scores of anti-aircraft (AA) positions.

By November 1943, however, the constant attrition of fighting over the Solomons was taking its toll on Rabaul's capabilities. And at that point, a new threat appeared. A new generation of U.S. naval aircraft carriers, built to replace those lost in 1942, were ready to join the offensive, manned by sailors and airmen who had been intensely trained by the combat-seasoned survivors of the battles of the Coral Sea, Midway, the eastern Solomons and Santa Cruz.



Joining the surviving carriers Saratoga and Enterprise were new 27,000-ton Essex-class fleet carriers and 11,000-ton Independence-class light carriers. Along with the veteran Grumman TBF-1 Avenger torpedo bombers and Douglas SDB-4 Dauntless dive bombers on their decks were two new aircraft—the Grumman F6F-3 Hellcat fighter and a new dive bomber, the Curtiss SB2C-1 Helldiver.


Grumman F6F-3 Hellcat


While his fleet buildup and the Allied advance up the Solomons proceeded, the American commander in chief in the Pacific (CINCPAC), Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, decided on an alternate plan to advance on Japan by seizing strategically selected island groups. The first targets would be Makin and Tarawa in the Gilbert Islands (now Kiribati), but before those invasions commenced, Nimitz sent his new task forces on a series of minor raids. The first occurred on August 31, 1943, when aircraft of Task Force 15.5, built around the carriers Yorktown, Essex and Independence, attacked Marcus Island in the North Pacific. That was followed by strikes against Tarawa and Makin by the carriers Lexington, Princeton and Belleau Wood from September 17 to 19. Wake Island was next, hit by planes from Essex, Yorktown, Lexington, Cowpens, Independence and Belleau Wood on October 5 and 6. The Wake strike saw the first confrontation between carrier-based F6F-3s and A6M2 Zeros—with the Hellcat coming away the victor—and the first successful use of a submarine, Skate, to rescue downed carrier airmen.


SB2C Helldiver


The damage inflicted in the raids was hardly crippling to the Japanese, but it gave the U.S. Navy airmen and sailors experience—and even more valuable self-confidence—for the greater campaigns to come. The first major operation for Nimitz's new carriers came not in the Central Pacific, however, but in the Solomons to the southwest. And their first real challenge would come from Rabaul.

On November 1, 1943, U.S. Marines landed in Empress Augusta Bay on the island of Bougainville, bringing American forces to the upper region of the Solomons. The Japanese reacted by sending a force of cruisers and destroyers to annihilate the beachhead, but it was intercepted by an American cruiser-destroyer force on the early morning of November 2 and repulsed with the loss of the light cruiser Sendai and the destroyer Hatsukaze.


SBD Dauntless


Later that day, 78 Fifth Air Force planes—North American B-25s of the 3rd, 38th and 345th bombardment groups, escorted by Lockheed P-38s from the 39th and 80th fighter squadrons and the 475th Fighter Group—attacked Rabaul and were intercepted by 112 Zeros. Rabaul's air defenses, under the overall command of Rear Adm. Jinichi Kusaka, included three carrier groups that had been dispatched there just the day before, while their ships underwent refit in Japan. The caliber of the pilots was reflected in their performance. Warrant Officer Kazuo Sugino from the carrier Zuikaku's air group was credited with shooting down three enemy planes. Shokaku's carrier group included Warrant Officer Kenji Okabe, famed for scoring seven victories in one day during the Battle of the Coral Sea, but its star in the November 2 air battle was Petty Officer 1st Class (PO1C) Takeo Tanimizu, who scored his first of an eventual 32 victories by downing two P-38s. From light carrier Zuiho, Ensign Yoshio Fukui downed a B-25 but was then himself shot down, possibly by Captain Marion Kirby of the 475th Group's 431st Squadron. Fukui survived with a burned right foot and insisted on returning to action. The loss of nine B-25s and nine P-38s earned the November 2 raid a place in Fifth Air Force annals as "Bloody Tuesday," but the Japanese recorded 18 Zeros destroyed or damaged in addition to bomb damage to Rabaul's ground installations.


Admiral William "Bull" Halsey


The Japanese needed a more powerful naval force to destroy the American beachhead. Admiral Mineichi Koga, commander of the Combined Fleet, dispatched Vice Adm. Takeo Kurita's Second Fleet, comprised of the heavy cruisers Takao, Maya, Atago, Suzuya, Mogami, Chikuma and Chokai, the light cruiser Noshiro and four destroyers, from Japan to Rabaul. Chokai and a destroyer had to be detached on November 4 to tow two transports that had been crippled by American air attacks to the northwestern Pacific base at Truk in the Caroline Islands. A Consolidated B-24 spotted the rest of Kurita's fleet off the Admiralty Islands and duly reported 19 ships heading toward the western entrance of St. George's Channel at Rabaul. The Second Fleet's arrival was bad news to Admiral William F. Halsey, commander of U.S. Navy forces in the Southwest Pacific. With most of the U.S. fleet preparing to invade the Gilberts, he did not have one heavy cruiser to oppose Kurita's powerful veterans. He did, however, have a small carrier detachment, Rear Adm. Frederick C. Sherman's Task Force (TF) 38, which had supported the bombardment of Buka and Bonis.

The carriers Saratoga and Princeton were fueling from the tanker Kankakee northwest of Rennell Island when Halsey sent them a dispatch on November 4, ordering, "Task Force 38 proceed maximum formation speed [to] launch all-out strike on shipping in Rabaul and north thereof (order of targets: cruisers, destroyers). Retire thereafter...."



TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: airpower; freeperfoxhole; japan; pacifictheater; rabaul; usnavy; veterans
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To: USMCBOMBGUY
Just finished watching "over there" on FOX. GRRRRRR.........

I wanted to catch that but couldn't stay up to watch it.

I'll take your GRRRRR as the program is typical TV BS.

21 posted on 07/28/2005 2:42:32 AM PDT by SAMWolf (I'm not being rude. You're just insignificant.)
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To: wildcatf4f3

Everything I've read about the Zero says it was a great plane but it sacrificed survivabilty for its performance. At the time we couldn't believe that the Japanese could build asuch a plane.


22 posted on 07/28/2005 2:45:40 AM PDT by SAMWolf (I'm not being rude. You're just insignificant.)
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To: A Jovial Cad

Morning Jovial Cad.

Thanks for sharing your grandfather's pictures with us.


23 posted on 07/28/2005 2:48:15 AM PDT by SAMWolf (I'm not being rude. You're just insignificant.)
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To: snippy_about_it

Morning Snippy and everyone at the Foxhole.


24 posted on 07/28/2005 3:03:47 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: snippy_about_it

Good morning ALL..cold front came through yesterday...blessed relief from the oppressive heat.


25 posted on 07/28/2005 3:44:02 AM PDT by GailA (Glory be to GOD and his only son Jesus.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; All


July 28, 2005

The Day The Sun Didn't Shine

Read:
Psalm 103

Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all His benefits. —Psalm 103:2

Bible In One Year: Isaiah 64-66

cover We often take God's blessings for granted until they are taken from us. Then we recognize how important even the most common gifts of God really are.

There's a legend about a day the sun didn't rise. At 6:00 in the morning it was dark. At 7:00 it was still night. Noon came and it was like midnight. By 4:00 in the afternoon, people flocked to the churches to beg God for the sun.

The next morning, huge crowds gathered outdoors to face the eastern sky. When the first rays of sunlight pushed open the door of the morning, the people burst into cheers and praised God for the sun.

The psalmist knew he couldn't possibly remember all of God's benefits to him. He was distressed that he might forget them all, so he took his sluggish soul in hand, shook it, and urged it to consider at least some of the good gifts God gave to him.

Because God's goodness is as constant as the sun, we are in danger of forgetting what He showers on us each day. If we count our blessings one by one, we'll never get finished. But if we jot down a list of 10 or 20 gifts God gives us each day, something will happen to our hearts.

Let's try it and find out for ourselves. —Haddon Robinson

Every morning as we rise,
God's new mercies greet our eyes;
And when twilight shadows fall,
Evening blessings brighten all. —Anon.

If you want to be rich, count all the things you have that money can't buy.

FOR FURTHER STUDY
How Has God Loved Us?

26 posted on 07/28/2005 4:04:17 AM PDT by The Mayor ( Pray as if everything depends on God; work as if everything depends on you.)
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To: snippy_about_it

Mornin' to all from Texas....we had a temp of about 73 degrees at 6 am over here...sure beats the heck outta waking up to 78 to start the day!


27 posted on 07/28/2005 5:15:58 AM PDT by texianyankee
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To: SAMWolf

On This Day In History


Birthdates which occurred on July 28:
---- Lu Pan Hong Kong
1165 Ibn al-'Arabi Muslim mystic/philosopher
1746 Thomas Heyward soldier, signed Declaration of Independence
1809 Ormsby McKnight Mitchel, astronomer/Major General (Union volunteers)
1825 William Duncan Smith, Brig General (Confederate Army), died in 1862
1833 James Henry Lane, Brig General (Confederate Army) [or Jun 22 1814]
1859 Balington Booth founded Volunteers of America
1866 Beatrix Potter England, children's author (Tale of Peter Rabbit)
1874 Ernst Cassirer Germany, philosopher/educator (Essay on Man)
1887 Marcel Duchamp painter (Nude Descending a Staircase)
1901 Rudy Vallee Vt, singer (Vagabond Dreams, My Time Is Your Time)
1907 Earl S Tupper invented Tupperware
1907 Vivian Vance Cherryvale Ks, actress (Ethel Mertz-I Love Lucy)
1909 Malcolm Lowry novelist (Under the Volcano)
1922 Jacques Piccard Switzerland, undersea explorer (bathyscaph Trieste)
1923 Kent L Lee, US vice-admiral (WW II-Marianas/Palau)
1929 Jacqueline Lee Bouvier Kennedy Onassis 1st lady (1961-63)
1938 Robert Hughes [Studley Forrest], Australia, writer/critic
1940 Phil Proctor comedian (Firesign Theater)
1943 Mike Bloomfield blues musician (Paul Butterfield Blues Band, Electric Flag, Super Sessions)
1945 Jim Davis cartoonist (Garfield)
1945 Richard Wright rocker (Pink Floyd-The Wall)
1947 Sally Struther Portland Oregon, actress (Gloria-All in the Family)
1948 Georgia Engel Wash DC, actress (Georgette-Mary Tyler Moore Show)
1949 Marilyn Quayle wife of vice president Dan Quayle
1949 Vida Blue major-league pitcher (Cy Young & AL MVP 1971)
1961 Scott E Parazynski Little Rock Ark, MD/astronaut
1967 Lori Loughlin NY, actress (Edge of Night, New Kids, Secret Admirer)
1979 Kimberly Whiting, Miss Idaho Teen USA (1997)



Deaths which occurred on July 28:
0450 Theodosius II de Jongere, emperor Austrian Empire, dies
1057 Victor II, [Gebhard], Pope (1055-57), dies
1101 Su Tung-p'o, Chinese poet/essayist/painter/calligrapher, dies at 64
1540 Thomas Cromwell King Henry VIII's chief minister, executed
1655 Cyrano de Bergerac, French dramatist/novelist, dies at 36 in Paris
1655 Suzuki Shosan, Samurai/monk/propagator of Zen Buddhism, dies at 76
1746 John Peter Zenger journalist, involved in 1st admendment fight, dies
1750 Johann Sebastian Bach German composer (Art of the Fugue), dies at 65
1794 Robespierre French revolutionary & 22 others executed to thunderous cheers
1863 James Deshler, US Confederate brig-general, dies in battle at 30
1864 Samuel Benton, US Confederate brig-general, dies in battle at about 44
1915 Vilbrun G Sam, rebellion leader/president of Haiti, lynched
1937 Joseph Lee father of Playgrounds movement, dies
1968 Otto Hahn, German physicist/chemist (Nobel 1944), dies at 89
1985 Grant Williams actor, dies of toxic poisoning at 54
1987 James Burnham philosopher (Coming Defeat of Communism), dies at 81


GWOT Casualties

Iraq
28-Jul-2003 2 | US: 2 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Sergeant Nathaniel Hart Jr. An Nasiriyah (near) - Dhi Qar Non-hostile - vehicle accident
US Specialist William J. Maher III Baghdad Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack

28-Jul-2004 3 | US: 3 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Gunnery Sergeant Shawn A. Lane Al Anbar Province Hostile - hostile fire
US Lieutenant Colonel David S. Greene Al Anbar Province Hostile - hostile fire
US Private 1st Class Ken W. Leisten Taji (NW of Baghdad) - Salah ad Din Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack


Afghanistan
A Good Day

http://icasualties.org/oif/
Data research by Pat Kneisler
Designed and maintained by Michael White
//////////
Go here and I'll stop nagging.
http://www.taps.org/
(subtle hint SEND MONEY)


On this day...
0388 Battle at Aquileja: Emperor Theodosius beats emperor Magnus Maximis
0754 Pope Stephen II, [III] makes Pippin de Korte, King of the Franks
1148 Crusaders attack Damascus
1540 Henry VIII of England marries Catherine Howard.
1586 Sir Thomas Harriot introduces potatoes to Europe
1588 Spanish Armada sails to overthrow England's Queen Elizabeth I
1609 Admiral George Somers settles in Bermuda
1615 French explorer Samuel de Champlain discovers Lake Huron on his seventh voyage to the New World.
1717 Prussian king Frederik Willem I gives compulsory education to 5-12 yrs
1741 Capt Bering discovers Mount St Elias, Alaska
1808 Sultan Mustapha of the Ottoman Empire is deposed and his cousin Mahmud II gains the throne.
1821 Peru declares independence from Spain (National Day)
1849 Memmon is 1st clipper to reach SF, 120 days out of NY
1851 Total solar eclipse captured on a daguerreotype photograph
1858 1st use of fingerprints as a means of identification
1862 Confederate forces defeated at More's Hill, Mo
1864 Atlanta Campaign-Battle of Ezra Church
1866 Metric system becomes a legal measurement system in US

1868 The 14th Amendment to the Constitution, which guarantees citizenship to all those born or naturalized in the United States, is adopted.

1883 Shocks triggered by the volcano Epomeo (Isle of Ischia, Italy) destroyed 1,200 houses at Casamicciola killing 2,000
1896 City of Miami incorporated
1898 Start of Sherlock Holmes "Adventure of the Retired Colourman"(BG)

1900 Hamburger created by Louis Lassing in Connecticut
"I'll gladly pay you tuesday for a hamburger today"
Wimpy

1914 Austria-Hungary attacks Serbia-WW I begins
1914 Foxtrot 1st danced at New Amsterdam Roof Garden (NYC, by Harry Fox)
1915 10,000 blacks march on 5th Ave (NYC) protesting lynchings
1915 US forces invade Haiti, stays until 1924
1929 Chicago Cardinals become 1st NFL team to train out of state (Mich)
1930 114ø F, Greensburg, Kentucky (state record)
1931 Congress makes "The Star-Spangled Banner" our 2nd national anthem
1932 Pres Hoover evicts bonus marchers from their encampment
1933 1st singing telegram delivered (to Rudy Vallee), NYC
1933 NFL divides into 2, 5 team divisions
1934 118ø F, Orofino, Idaho (state record)
1942 Nazis liquidate 10,000 Jews in Minsk Russia
1943 Italian Facist dictator Benito Mussolini resigns
1943 Pres FDR announces end of coffee rationing in US
1945 Japanese premier Suzuki disregards US ultimatum to surrender (Not one of his best moves)
1945 US Army bomber crashes into 79th floor of Empire State Bldg, 14 die
1945 US Senate ratifies UN charter 89-2
1951 Walt Disney's "Alice In Wonderland" released
1959 Hawaii's 1st US election sends 1st Asian-Americans to Congress
1962 Mariner I launched to Mars falls into Atlantic Ocean
1964 Ranger 7 launched toward the Moon; sent back 4308 TV pictures
1965 LBJ sends 50,000 more soldiers to Vietnam (total of 125,000)
1973 Skylab 3's astronauts (Bean, Garriott & Lousma) launched
1976 242,000 die in Tientsin-Tangshan (China) 8.2 earthquake
1976 Eldon Joersz & Geo Morgan set world air speed record of 2193 mph in a SR-71
1977 1st oil flow through the Alaska pipeline
1977 Roy Wilkins turn over NAACP leadership to Benjamin L Hooks
1978 600,000 attend Watkins Glen Summer Jam in NY
1978 At Old Timer's Game it's announced Martin will again manage Yankees
1978 Perth Observatory discovers asteroid #3188 & #3422
1978 Price of gold tops $200-an-oz level for 1st time
1983 AL Pres Lee MacPhail threw out umpire's decision & allows George Brett's 2 run HR against Yanks on July 24 (pine tar game)
1983 NASA launches Telstar-3A
1986 NASA releases transcript from doomed Challenger, pilot Michael Smith could be heard saying, "Uh-oh!" as spacecraft disintegrated
1988 IBM announces price hike on older models
1988 Jordan cancels $1.3 billion development plan in West Bank
1988 Winnie Mandella's home in Soweto, South Africa destroyed by arson
1989 Braves Dale Murphy, hits 2 3-run HRs in an inning, 14th man to hit 2 HRs in an inning. Also ties record of 6 RBIs in an inning
1989 NASA's Lewis Research Center, Cleve, announce new high-temperature superconductors able to operate at 33 to 37 Gigahertz
1990 Blackout hits Chicago
1991 Miguel Indurain of Spain wins the Tour de France
1994 Texas Ranger Kenny Rogers pitches baseball's 12th perfect game
1995 Art Modell's rep begins secrets talks to move team to Baltimore
2002 Lance Armstrong wins the Tour de France,
for the fourth consecutive year.
2061 31st recorded perihelion passage of Halley's Comet
(party at 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub's house. Please RSVP)


Holidays
Note: Some Holidays are only applicable on a given "day of the week"

Bermuda : Adm George Somers Day (1609)
San Marino : Fall of Facism Day (1943)
US : Joseph Lee Day-honors playgrounds (1937)
US : Volunteers of America founders day (1859)
Gilroy, California : Garlic Festival ( Friday )
Peru : Independence Day (1824)
Marry a Millionaire Day
National Ice Cream Month


Religious Observances
Luth : Commemoration of JS Bach, Heinrich Schtz, GF Handel
RC : Comm of SS Nazarius, Celsus, martyrs & Innocent I, pope
RC : Commemoration of St Victor I, 14th pope (189-199)


Religious History
1675 Death of Bulstrode Whitelocke 69, an influential English lawyer during theCommonwealth of Oliver Cromwell. Among Whitelocke's last words: 'There has been one true religion in the world; and that is the work of the Spirit of God in the hearts and souls of men.'
1881 Birth of J. Gresham Machen, an American Presbyterian theologian who taught at Princeton and Westminster seminaries. Two of his writings still endure: 'New Testament Greekfor Beginners' (1923) and 'The Virgin Birth of Christ' (1932).
1889 The first Divine Liturgy (worship service) of the Armenian Church in America wascelebrated in Worcester, MA. It was led by Rev. Hovsep Sarajian, himself the first Armenianclergyman to come to America.
1942 Death of W.M. Flinders Petrie, 89, English archaeologist. He was regarded bycolleague William Foxwell Albright as 'the greatest genius among biblical archaeologists.'
1960 American Trappist Thomas Merton wrote in a letter: 'I can depend less and lesson my own power and sense of direction... It is so strange to advance backwards and getwhere you are going in a totally unexpected way.'

Source: William D. Blake. ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1987.


Migration leaves man drought
Wednesday July 27, 2005

Guardian

Thousands of men in their 20s and early 30s have left Australia, causing a gender imbalance that is having far-reaching implications for society, a study shows.
New figures show there were 20,000 fewer men than women aged 30-something in Australia last year, according to a report by accounting firm KPMG, reversing a long period in which there were more men.

The study, which uses data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics, shows that in the 12 months to 2004 there was a surplus of women in every age group between 29 and 55.

KPMG partner Bernard Salt, a demographer and social watcher, said Australia's so-called "man drought" was not caused by fewer boys at birth. The globalisation of labour was the main reason young men in particular were leaving Australia for the bigger economies of the northern hemisphere, including Britain and the US. Those men often chose to marry and stay overseas.

"The man drought is leading to a shift in consumer culture; you have more women buying apartments, taking out finance loans; women are evolving their own single culture," Mr Salt said.

A similar trend emerged in New Zealand in the late 1970s and accelerated as men migrated to Australia or the northern hemisphere.





Hmmmmmmm?


Thought for the day :
"Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum (A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants)."
Phil Proctor


28 posted on 07/28/2005 5:30:47 AM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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To: w_over_w

Been doing finances all evening

AH! Life in the fast lane.


29 posted on 07/28/2005 5:35:09 AM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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To: snippy_about_it; bentfeather; Samwise; Peanut Gallery; Wneighbor
Good morning ladies. Flag-o-Whaddacountry-o-Gram.


30 posted on 07/28/2005 6:00:30 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (Dining room, we don't need no stinkin dining room! Classroom space, on the other hand, is valuable.)
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To: SAMWolf
Good Morning to you, Mr. SAMWolf.

Thanks A-Million & More for the Awesome Tales of the Navy Carrier/Air Battles in the WW2 South Pacific Theater.

Always a good reminder of All the handling & shooting skill our Hellcat & Corsair boys neede to Splash a Zero, a Kate or a Betty.

A shame , though, that the Land-based P-38's had to get shafted by some doggone-good Japanese aces.

31 posted on 07/28/2005 6:20:28 AM PDT by ExcursionGuy84 ("I will Declare the Beauty of The LORD.")
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; Iris7; Valin; PAR35; U S Army EOD
MORNING GLORY FOLKS!


32 posted on 07/28/2005 7:35:47 AM PDT by w_over_w (I'm thankful there's no "I" in work but there's a "me" in meatloaf.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; Iris7; Valin; PAR35; U S Army EOD
Excellent read . . . very insightful on Naval Aeriel combat.

When fighter directors asked how many, a Corsair pilot replied: "Jesus Christ, boys, there's a million of them! Let's go to work!"

LOL! That's some adrenalin.

33 posted on 07/28/2005 7:35:52 AM PDT by w_over_w (I'm thankful there's no "I" in work but there's a "me" in meatloaf.)
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To: Valin
1945 US Army bomber crashes into 79th floor of Empire State Bldg, 14 die

Too late the pilot of the U.S. Army B-25 bomber with three men aboard, saw the Empire State Building loom up before his eyes. At 300 miles per hour, he plunged through the 34th Street side of the building wreaking havoc. The major portion of the wreckage penetrated the 78th floor. An engine hurtled down an elevator shaft igniting a furious fire in the basement. Parts of the motor and landing gear tore through the entire building landing on top of a 13-story ediface across the street and igniting a second conflagration. With legs held down by two newsmen, photographer Ernie Sisto crawled out on a harrowing ledge and took the historic photo. It ran on page one of the New York Times.

34 posted on 07/28/2005 7:57:54 AM PDT by w_over_w (I'm thankful there's no "I" in work but there's a "me" in meatloaf.)
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: SAMWolf
I wasn't an unbiased viewer so take that in account. I question the wisdom of putting out a drama about a war we are still fighting. I think it may increase the worry and concerns of the families and loved ones here in the states. I think it will definitely give the wrong impression of how things work there. Now this is just the first show so I wont damn the whole series, it is also only an hour long so I am sure its hard to put together a story to fit in the time constraint.
The last caveat is I am a Marine and this is about Soldiers so things may work a little differently then what has been my experience.
First impressions:
Female soldiers-One is portrayed as being ripped from her child and sent to Iraq, the other is depicted as being weak and scared.
Filled with Cliches- "Don't call me sir, I work for a living"
Battles-The gunfights are plausible to over dramatized. Weak characters-The "SARGE" threatens to shoot his troops and tells them someone is gonna die, the LT is portrayed as a bugger eater that is beyond using common sense.
Racial tensions-Right off the bat! This is not a wide spread issue.
Story line-Females were drivers who's vehicles went down dropping off the males at a siege they have going and are now stranded there, so they put them on the line and not with the HQs. Later in the show the soldiers take off to get some booze and get it by a roadside bomb.
I hope I didn't ruin it for you, I tried not to get to specific, keep some of it a surprise for you.
36 posted on 07/28/2005 8:20:23 AM PDT by USMCBOMBGUY (Mad as hell)
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To: USMCBOMBGUY; SAMWolf
I caught the opening episode . . . found it "entertaining" . . . but couldn't wait to here what the real veterans thought of it. Your comments parallel what a group of veterans from Ft. Murray in Wash. said after a pre-screening last week. In so many words they called it a "BS Hollywood Soldier Suck Job." LOL. They especially wanted to know where the idea of an IED with "white flags" attached to wires came from . . . never saw anything like that. They also could not believe the line "air support is occupied elsewhere and can't help us". They said a mission like the one depicted would never be approved without air support and that there is plenty to cover multiple missions.

What a difference when real vets view a depiction of their service. If Bochco can use real NYPD as technical advisers to his hit series, then why not here. Perhaps in due time. IMHO.

I think it may increase the worry and concerns of the families and loved ones here in the states.

Roger that.

37 posted on 07/28/2005 8:42:21 AM PDT by w_over_w (I'm thankful there's no "I" in work but there's a "me" in meatloaf.)
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To: bentfeather

Good morning feather.


38 posted on 07/28/2005 9:56:26 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: SAMWolf
38th Bomber Group b25 Mitchell's rain parafrags down on Rabaul, New Britain. ca. 1943.

Candygram

39 posted on 07/28/2005 10:15:32 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (Dining room, we don't need no stinkin dining room! Classroom space, on the other hand, is valuable.)
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To: bentfeather

Hi miss Feather.


40 posted on 07/28/2005 10:16:11 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (Dining room, we don't need no stinkin dining room! Classroom space, on the other hand, is valuable.)
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