The FReeper Foxhole Revisits Little Round Top - Gettysburg (7/2/1863) - June 24th, 2005

military.com ^ | James R. Brann

[Professional Engineer]

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!

But, but, but, but...

I meant 1950 Nancy Allen NYC, actress (Carrie, 1941, Robocop, Dress to Kill)

[Professional Engineer]

1947 Flying saucers sighted over Mount Rainier by pilot Ken Arnold (and so an industry was born)

Hold on just onnnnnneeeeeee minute there buster. Mt Rainier is nowhere near Roswell, NM.

[A Jovial Cad]

I agree with both of you: sadly, the last "hot" war we fought to unconditionally win ended on August 11, 1945, IMO.

Putting aside small brush fire engagements (i.e., Grenada, Panama, etc.), they've all been either "Die-for-a-tie" or "win-all-the-battles-but-lose-the-war" type situations (Korea, Vietnam). Perhaps this made marginally more sense during the Cold War, with the Soviet nuclear arsenal threatening to engulf the world, but that threat ended de facto in 1989 and de jure in 1991.

I remember about a year ago when I expressed the sentiment in several threads that Fallujah should be leveled for both tactical and strategic reasons: tactical to destroy the insurgents and their fellow travelers in a sympathetic environ, and strategic to send a harsh, loud and clear message that the United States was done with fighting wars on the "limited" model, and back to the 1945 version of waging conflict: we win, you lose, period, a la the campaigns we waged against Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and Imperial Japan. I was flamed to cinders, accused of being a troll, a liberal (!), and so on.

Here we are a year later, and as I'm sitting here typing this the newscaster in the background is saying that a group of Marines were ambushed, with six K.I.A. and many more wounded today...in Fallujah.

Rant now officially *OFF*.

[snippy_about_it]

Well said AJC. I couldn't agree more.

[snippy_about_it]

LOL. I was starting to get worried about your selection.

[ruoflaw]

the history of the Little Round Top battle is awe inspiring and I am so glad that you printed it so we could read it. My family and I used to watch it evey Fourth of July but our son is now grown and has a family of his own. I am going to tell our son that this is here....he will want to read it! Thanks!

[Valin]

And a fine rant it was.
In referance to Korea, I recall reading this story a couple of years ago. A group of Korean war vets retunred the the ROK, they were asking themselves "Why'd we fight this war?". They were on a tour bus going through Seoul on the way to the DMZ, they got stuck in traffic, they looked out and saw a bunch of kids on a playground. Then they knew why they fought that war, so those kids didn't have to live like the kids in North Korea.

(IMO) WWII is the wrong war to look at when thinking about the GWOT. The Cold War is the correct model. Think of this as 1947-8.

[PhilDragoo]

A war with astounding bravery, ten times the killed of Vietnam in half the time.

Regarding Chamberlain, Ronald Reagan in his first Innaugural Address, January 20, 1981, said, "There is no limit to what a man can do or where he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit."

The Sharps carbine

The Spencer repeating carbine

FM1863: "No good deed shall go unpunished"

What Happened to the "Hero of Little Round Top," Gouverneur K. Warren, CE?

On the second day at Gettysburg, 2 July 1863, Gouverneur K. Warren, Chief Engineer, Army of the Potomac, noticed that Little Round Top, key to the Union defensive position, was undefended. He ordered troops to the hill in time to blunt Hood’s attack. Almost two years later on 1 April 1865 at the Battle of Five Forks, Major General Philip Sheridan, with Grant’s authority, relieved him from command and sent him to the rear.

When Warren graduated second in the West Point class of 1850 he accepted a commission as a second lieutenant in the Corps of Topographical Engineers. In the years prior to the Civil War he worked with Andrew Humphreys on the Mississippi River, on transcontinental railroad surveys, and explored, surveyed, and mapped the trans-Mississippi West. At the start of the war he received a commission as a Lieutenant Colonel of Volunteers in the 5th New York Infantry Regiment, and by the fall he was a Colonel and regimental commander. Promoted to Brigadier General in September 1862 he served as Chief Topographical Engineer and then Chief Engineer, Army of the Potomac.

Promoted to Major General after Gettysburg, he commanded 2d Corps until March 1864 when Grant made him 5th Corps commander. He led the 5th Corps through the Union offensive from the Wilderness, to Cold Harbor, and into the Petersburg trenches. He must have done well because he was still in command when Grant began the offensive that led to Appomattox. Grant ordered an attack on the Confederates at Five Forks for 1 April with Sheridan in command of both his Cavalry Corps and Warren’s 5th Corps. Grant wanted Sheridan to push the attack and authorized him to relieve Warren if he got in the way.

Although Warren successfully defended his position against the Confederates, Sheridan and Grant thought he did not press the attack fast enough. At the end of the day, as Warren met Sheridan for what he thought was a celebration, Sheridan charged him with neglect during the battle, relieved him from command of 5th Corps “for cause,” and ordered him to report to Grant. Warren asked for a Report of Inquiry, but the end of the war, Lincoln’s assassination, and Johnson’s impeachment all got in the way.

Warren reverted to his Regular Army rank of Major, CE, and went back to work on the Mississippi River. In July 1866 he was assigned to serve as the first “Engineer in Charge” of the Corps’ new office in St. Paul, Minnesota, where he served until May 1870. He then was in charge of engineer operations along the New England coast with headquarters at Newport, Rhode Island. It took the Army until 1879, after Grant’s two terms, to grant Warren’s request for a hearing. The board finally published its findings in November 1882 exonerating Warren of any neglect at Five Forks on 1 April 1865.

However, it was too late for Warren. He died three months earlier on 8 August 1882. At his request his family buried him in civilian clothes and without military ceremony at Newport. He felt disgraced by his relief on the field of battle. Ironically, however, in 1888 a bronze statue of him in uniform as Chief Engineer, Army of the Potomac, was placed at Little Round Top, the key position he saved on the second day at Gettysburg.

~~~

[ Medal of Honor Citation ]

Sergeant
Andrew J Tozier
Organization: Company I, 20th Maine Infantry
Entered Service: Plymouth, Maine.
Birth: Monmouth, Maine.
Date Medal Issued: 13 August 1898.
Date of Action: 2 July 1863.
Place of Action: Gettysburg, Pa.

Citation: At the crisis of the engagement this soldier, a color bearer, stood alone in an advanced position, the regiment having been borne back, and defended his colors with musket and ammunition picked up at his feet.

~~~

Why pretend we are not at war with Iran?

The "insurgency" is a supply of fighters from Iran trained by the Pasdaran.

Nuke the mullahs.

Put Ted Kennedy in jail.

Go Putin on CBS et al.

Note to "insurgents": Are you talkin to me?

It's way past time to quit the fairy minuet wafting over reality on a pair of Lindsey Graham's loafers.

This is war--who demanded a timetable for our exit from a) Iwo Jima; b) the Normandy Beach; c) the Bulge; d) World War II in general and any battle in particular?

Nobody.

Note to John McCain the Senator from Manchuria: You are so never being president.

My own plan for the Battle of Fallujah involved leaflets and daisy cutters.

The lesson of X-Ray and abu Ghraib: no prisoners.

Ship the current Gitmo perps to Tyson for processing and air drop by drone to the starving North Koreans.

[Valin]

Great Post!

[snippy_about_it]

Bravo! Great minds think alike. I just don't have the words you do. :-)

Thanks Phil.

[snippy_about_it]

Your welcome.

[E.G.C.]

BTTT!!!!!!!!

[SAMWolf]

I meant 1950 Nancy Allen

LOL! Being familiar with RoboCop (The original) I knew who you meant. :-)

[SAMWolf]

AMEN! We seem to have lost our will as a nation. :-(

[SAMWolf]

Morning Phil Dragoo.

We have too many "enemies within" and unfortunately they retain too much power in our Courts and Government. :-(

[snippy_about_it]

You missed post 26 yesterday. I have to box it up today, can you use anything small I can throw in there?

[w_over_w]

How did I miss that? Sorry! Yes, please include the suet cage. I'd been considering adding some new kind of feeder. Your generosity is too kind. Thanks sweets.

[snippy_about_it]

okie dokie.

[colorado tanker]

I'm afraid the gloves won't be coming off, since we live in an era where leaving a prisoner in a cold room is now considered "torture."

My most realistic hope is the Iraqi army will come more and more on line and will fight like the other armies in the region, with the gloves off.

[M. Espinola]

Hats off to a top notch researched thread!