The FReeper Foxhole Presents the 1st Saturday Symposium - April 30th, 2005

our own thoughts

[snippy_about_it]

Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.


...................................................................................... ...........................................

U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues

Where Duty, Honor and Country
are acknowledged, affirmed and commemorated.

Our Mission:

The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans.

In the FReeper Foxhole, Veterans or their family members should feel free to address their specific circumstances or whatever issues concern them in an atmosphere of peace, understanding, brotherhood and support.

The FReeper Foxhole hopes to share with it's readers an open forum where we can learn about and discuss military history, military news and other topics of concern or interest to our readers be they Veteran's, Current Duty or anyone interested in what we have to offer.

If the Foxhole makes someone appreciate, even a little, what others have sacrificed for us, then it has accomplished one of it's missions.

We hope the Foxhole in some small way helps us to remember and honor those who came before us.

To read previous Foxhole threads or
to add the Foxhole to your sidebar,
click on the books below.

Who is your favorite General in American Military History and why?



Foxhole folks know we are always asking for suggestions and Foxhole FReeper PzLdr suggested we offer up subjects for discussion. Today is our first go at it. We'd also like suggestions for other persons, places, and things you would like to see discussed in this new Saturday forum, the Foxhole Saturday Symposium.

sym·po·sium : a social gathering at which there is free interchange of ideas

So now let's get on with the discussion. Pull up a chair or grab a spot on the floor around the virtual Foxhole Cabin and let's chat about "Who is your favorite General in American Military History and why?"

---

---

FReeper Foxhole Armed Services Links

[PzLdr]

I respectfully dissent. MacArthur is one of the few generals I have come across who was not only disliked by his men (and it didn't stop on Bataan), but by his officers and his Allies.The Buna campaign was a waste of life and resources. His strategic vision started and ended with the Philippine's. And give the Navy some credit. Their thrust through the Central Pacific was of more concern to the Japanese than MacArthur.

And then there's Korea. MacArthur north of the 38th reminds me of Montgomery before "Market-Garden".Both heard what they wanted to hear, ignored what they didn't want to hear, and created battle plans where the enemy did what they wanted them to do. MacArthur sent the entire Xth Corps off on its own, despite indications China might intervene. He then spread the rest of 8th Army in an arc of non-mutually supporting units. The rest is history.

[ex-snook]

Hey let me nominate George Washington without his leadership there would be no history. His crossing of the Delware and the victorious battle at Trenton set the bar pretty high. Regards,

[Aeronaut]

Good morning Snippy.

[The Mayor]

April 30, 2005

A Lost Experience

Read:
Psalm 51:1-13

Restore to me the joy of Your salvation. -Psalm 51:12

Bible In One Year: Psalm 58-60

A pastor in Los Angeles visited a man and asked if he was a Christian. "Oh, yes, I was a member of a church in Ohio," he said, "and when I asked for my letter of church membership before coming west, I sat down and wrote out my Christian experience. I took them both and put them in a little box. I would like to show them to you."

But when he got the box, it was evident that a mouse had gnawed its way into the container and destroyed the papers. He said to the pastor, "I have lost my Christian experience and my church letter."

If all that the man lost was those two documents, it was no great loss. Many put great stock in a baptismal certificate or a church letter but have experienced no genuine work of grace in their heart. Only faith in the Savior will provide salvation.

Genuine Christians can also take a warning from this story. Their once vital "experience" may have been "put in a box" and allowed to deteriorate. They have failed to keep it fresh and vibrant by daily fellowship with the Lord through prayer and Bible study.

If this describes you, cry with David, "Restore to me the joy of Your salvation" (Psalm 51:12). -Paul Van Gorder

Create in me a clean heart, O God,
Show the way that Jesus has trod;
Then I will tell of Your saving grace,
Until the day when I see Your face. -Hess

Faith in a creed can go stale-faith in Christ can be fresh every day.

FOR FURTHER STUDY
What Does God Think Of Me Now?
What Is A Personal Relationship With God?

[Neil E. Wright]

Greetings shipmate

You have it wrong! I was NEVER an officer, I too, was an enlisted man ... Radioman 2nd ... :)

I served on the staffs of CTF 76/Commander Amphibious Force, WestPac in Okinawa (under 2 Admirals, Whitmire and Morris) from April '75 to mid '77 and was transfered to CTF 72/Commander Patrol Wings WestPac at Kamiseya, Ja till I was discharged in '80.

RAdm Whitmire was OITC during the bugout when Saigon fell that month (April '75).

±

"The Era of Osama lasted about an hour, from the time the first plane hit the tower to the moment the General Militia of Flight 93 reported for duty."
Toward FREEDOM

I have a Military/Veteran's Affairs ping list. FReep mail me if you want ON/OFF the list.

[Wneighbor]

Afternoon Foxhole!

I'm sittin' at home waitin' for the Talladega Busch Series race to start. Every little bit I get a call from my daughter or son-in-law who are there. It's Jill's first "big race" and the racing gene has finally surfaced in her in a big way! I love it! She's so excited even though they're in this rain delay.

Mah son-in-law, God Bless Him, bought me a Dale Earnhardt Sr. shirt! :-) He loves me. I can tell! :-)

[Wneighbor]

Oh wow! I love this cabin!

Now, I'm thinkin' on this discussion topic. I don't know as much detail as most of you guys but I've always loved history, especially reading and hearing "first hand" stories. I gotta think about who my favorite is.

[stand watie]

GA, all ya'll.<P.free dixie,sw

[SAMWolf]

MacArthur had way too big an ego, but his Inchon landing was a masterpiece.

[Wneighbor]

Well, I been thinkin'. and I read through everybody else's comments while I was thinkin'.

Snippy, I can sure see where Patton would be a favorite. I like his "no cr@p" attitude. If I were a general I'd probably be a lot like that, and I don't necesarily mean that in a good way. LOL Actually, I think my students would prolly tell you I run my classroom that way! OH NO!!!

Now, mark502inf and samwolf started me to thinking about George Washington. He wasn't on my first thoughts of favorite - but you guys sure do have the best points on here. Washington might really be the best listed here.

I also liked that reasoning I read in those posts re: MacArthur guys. Interesting reading there too.

Neil E. Wright, when I was trying to figure out who my favorite was, I wondered if an Admiral would count. I grew up not too far from Fredericksburg, Texas and Admiral Nimitz has always been a hero of mine simply because I knew so much about him.

But, after reading all ya'lls thoughts, I think I'll do something predictable for me and name General Robert E. Lee as my favorite. And it's not because 7 out of every 10 of my ancestors were named after him! ~grin~ But, he was a terrific general, his skills as a commander wanted both by north and south.

Thinking Lee is my fave has to do with the respect and admiration he had from both sides of the battle lines before, during and after the war. Lee was not only a terrific military strategy guy but he was an honorable American. He gave his all, was beloved by his men, and upon defeat did his utmost to restore the nation.

Yeah, maybe Washington filled that bill better than Lee. But, I wanted to add a new flavor to this soup. And I think Lee took after Washington a lot in his honor - and I'll get arguements from some folks about this but also I think he took after Washington in his allegiance. He was a Virginian and that meant he had to remain Virginian. I think I understand that.

heh heh heh... now that I took the opportunity to have lots of favorites - can I also say *Ghenghis Kahn* - (1) He conquered half the known world from the back of a horse! (2) Ya'll know I ride a Harley, I think it would have been a wild @$$ ride, riding with Ghenghis! AND (3) John F'n Kerry uses his name as a bad connotation THEREFORE he must have been fabulous!

[Wneighbor]

Re: MacArthur

Ya'll gotta realize, MacArthur isn't who the history books present him to be. The big give-away came - what 20 years ago or so - with the release of The Terminator. Same speech, "I shall return" "I'll be back."

See, The Terminator just travelled back in time a little too far the first time and ended up smack in the middle of WW2. Folks back then just weren't ready for time travel and androids. He assumed the persona of one Douglas MacArthur.

I just thought you guys oughtta know that.

/silliness

[Soaring Feather]

Howdy, Wneighbor!


Racing it is huh?? I used to enjoy racing. Now I just do poetry, little slower paced these days. LOL

[Wneighbor]

Oh yeah!!!!!!!!!!

VVVRROOOOOMMMMM!

[Darksheare]

Afternoon!

[Wneighbor]

Ping!

[PAR35]

Although I am sticking with Stonewall, Washington is certainly somewhere in the top tier, for the reasons you noted. Trenton was certainly a masterful stroke, and he managed to hold the army together through the defeats.

I'm going to make both sides mad, but I would suggest that Lee, while one of the most beloved generals in history, was not one of the greatest. Gettysburg alone should disqualify him from consideration. Many of his successes are not a credit to him, but merely show how inept the Union leaders were.

And to offend anyone not offended by the previous statement, I would suggest that General Forrest deserves consideration. From almost nothing, he organized a guerrilla army which successfully wrested functional control from the occupiers, and then disbanded his force when victory was in hand.

[Victoria Delsoul]

Happy weekend, all.

[Wneighbor]

heh, I don't get offended *that* easily!

Stonewall was on my first list too. As a non-military gal I comprende history from a civilian history perspective. When it gets into the ballet of military strategy I am only marginally literate. I'm a little out of my league in this general discussion with you guys. Ya'll just know *way* more than me about military. What I know if what I read that other's have surmised.

My vote for Lee is because of what I see as his personal code of honor and the admiration he received from troops and other commanders at the time.

OTOH, from my reading I have gotten the impression that others thought Stonewall was a masterful military genius. I like that and remember reading a biography of him years ago. Gave me goose bumps it did!

and, anybody who earns a nickname like "Stonewall" had to be an adventure to ride with as well. makes him a great man in my book too.

[Professional Engineer]

1952 Tom Pesek PC programmer (creator of HAL 9000 program)

I'm afraid I can't do that dave.

[SAMWolf]

We'll do an "Admiral" Symposium some day. :-)

I have to put Lee and Jackson up in my favorites too. They accomplished so much with so little and both were leaders who inspired their men to go that one step further.

There are some generals at the Division and Corps level that were great in their own right.

But my final consideration was, which one was the most important in our history.