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The FReeper Foxhole - Fun with Army Men - February 19th, 2005
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Posted on 02/18/2005 10:40:53 PM PST by snippy_about_it



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.



...................................................................................... ...........................................

U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues

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Fun with Army Men




There are many ways to enjoy Army Men.


The simplest and most common involves a sandpile or dirt backyard, small garden trowel and wood twigs. You can dig bunkers, fortifications and trenchlines.



Using them with electric trains (only larger O and G scale trains!) is fun. Soldiers ride in hoppers and gondolas. Do not stuff them in boxcars because it is hard to get them out. Note that a train can crash a tank, but a tank cannot crash a locomotive. So don't be a dummy: never put tanks on train tracks.

Outdoors, soldiers can be bombed with 'enemy dirt bombs." Small, dry clumps of dirt will seem to explode upon impact.



The cheap spring-loaded firing cannons sold with Army Men don't pack much punch. Many cannot knock down a single Army Man from three feet. You can buy the heavy metal cannons by Britains if you want to shoot and be assured of a knockdown. The best is the cannon marketed as a 4.7 Inch Naval Gun. It is accurate to nine feet.

South Street Rules
These are an unwritten set of rules that were generally accepted in 1962. Updated info is included, but not noted as such. Amendments were added whenever there was a new real war.

Allies and Enemies:



By the rules, the following troops can be used for the following armies:

US soldiers: US Army, US Marines, Norwegian Army, Danish Army, South Koreans, ARVN, Canadians



Germans: German Army, Swedes. Some companies now sell green Germans as modern US troops in the new helmet.

British: British Troops can be used for Israelis if they are molded in Green, and Arabs if they are molded in tan. In some areas in the Northeast, British soldiers are considered enemy troops. It's an Irish thing. Even though the Canadians used to have British uniforms, it is considered prudent to use US troops for The Great White North's army.

Foreign Legion: in a pinch, Foreign Legionnaires can be used as Union troops.

Civil War: Union troops can substitute for foreign legion. Grey Confederates can substitute for Germans.

Cowboys can also be used for Alamo Texans.



Russians: Russians can substitute for Poles, North Koreans and Red Chinese

Japanese: it is allowable to use Japanese for Red Chinese, North Koreans or VC.

Mexicans: Alamo Mexicans can be used as War of 1812 guys. Blue go with the US, red with the British.

Napoleonics: What? Napoleon guys? NOT HERE! This is traditional American Army Men, and we didn't have no stinkin' Napoleon Guys!

Pirates: Pirates can be used as Revolutionary War and Civil War sailors, and as Alamo Texans.

Commandos: a small group of soldiers, if molded in a distinctly different shade of green than your regular Army Men, could be used as Commandos or Rangers.

Special Forces: it was allowable to paint ten soldiers' helmets red and designate them as Special Forces. They acted as Commandos.

A medic can heal a man who was shot by taking out the bullet. He cannot do this if the guy was bayonetted or bombed or fired up.

Vehicles and their Protocols



Both sides had to have a fair share of vehicles. Green vehicles were generally US, and grey were German. Later, some tan vehicles were also German or Japanese. If you had only green vehicles, some had to be given to the other side. A few companies molded them in blue or other colors. Blue could mean Navy or Air Force, but usually they became the Enemy. In a pinch, which was most of the time, they enemy had Green vehicles, too.



Jeeps: a machine gun could knock out a jeep, but jeeps could drive many places. The power of Jeeps increased after the series Rat Patrol made its debut, and then a Jeep with a machine gun could knock out a half track or open self-propelled gun. You could mount a machine gun, mortar or bazooka on a Jeep. You could tow a cannon with a jeep, but not mount a cannon on it.



Trucks: trucks only carry men and tow cannons.



Half Tracks: they can go anywhere and run over Jeeps and Trucks. Half Tracks can even mount a cannon. The second best vehicle on the battlefield.



Tanks: Tanks can go anywhere, knock down any building, run over any other vehicle except another tank or a train. To blow up a tank, you need another tank, a big cannon or a bazooka.

Self-propelled guns: they are like tanks, but they have an open top and can be blown up if a guy throws in a grenade or drops a mortar on them.

Helicopters: these are rare. They could carry soldiers and drop bombs (remember - we hadn't seen Hueys gunships or Cobras yet!). They could be knocked out with machine guns or cannons.

Airplanes: airplanes could carry paratroops, strafe and drop bombs. They could be knocked out by machine guns and cannons.

Rockets and Missiles: they had the same firepower as cannons, but could be shot up and come straight down into a bunker.

Armored cars: like tanks, but could not ride all over and were vulnerable to having their tires shot out. Armored cars could only go where trucks could go.

Firepower
Weapons have distinct powers and liabilities. Know them, and make sure you have enough when you go to battle!

A rifle could shoot one guy at a time.

A submachine gun could shoot up a bunch of guys or a jeep.



A machine gun could shoot up troops, jeeps, trucks, half tracks and aircrafts. If fired from above, like on a hill, it could also blow up a self-propelled gun.

A mortar could drop bombs and blow up anything but tanks and aircraft.

A small cannon could bomb anything except tanks.



A big cannon could blast anything. Of course, its crew was vulnerable to everything out there.

A bazooka could blow up any vehicle. However, it did not blow up a bunch of troops.

A flamethrower could burn out a tank.

A missile was like a big cannon.

Hand grenades are like a mortar, but they are thrown at close range.

Airplane bombs could blast anything except tanks.



Civil War, Revolutionary War and Pirate cannons could not harm tanks, half tracks, armored cars or self-propelled guns.

Civil War mortars acted like regular mortars.

Nukes destroy both sides, so nobody can use them.

Civil War



Cowboys, Pirates, Davy Crockett guys and Alamo Texans could be used to supplement either side. If a figure was molded in blue or grey, however, he had to go to the appropriate side.

Cannons could blow up anything on the Civil War battlefield. If you used Civil War cannons to supplement a modern war, however, they were not able to penetrate armored cars, self-propelled guns, tanks or half tracks.



Alamo Mexicans could be used to supplement Civil War armies. Blue always went to the Union, Grey to the Confederates, and red to whichever side needed more men.

Spacemen



Pistol-size ray guns can take out other spacemen, very small rockets and jeep-size vehicles.

Rifle-sized ray guns can take out big vehicles - anything except half tracks and tanks.

If you use tanks with spacemen (they didn't make many space combat vehicles) their cannons automatically become super ray guns.

You can use missiles, but regular guns and cannons do not work in space.

Knights, Vikings and Romans
Knights in plate armor are like walking tanks. It takes a lance on horseback, an axe, a mace or a direct hit with a catapult to down one with one shot. Sword and spear guys have to gang up on them and stick them through openings in the armor.

Knights in armor cannot swim or ford waterways.

If confronted by a gun, it takes 3 shots to knock down a fully-armored knight. A burst from a machine gun works, too. Fully-armored knights are vulnerable to all heavy weapons, including grenades. Flamethrowers wreak havoc on them.

Vikings are so cool that they can beat a knight as if he were an unarmored man.

Romans only have half armor. They can be used to supplement knights' armies.

Terrain

Houses can stop bullets, but a hand grenade can blow a door open.



Tanks can knock down any house.



Stone walls stop everything

Wood only stops bullets

A wood fort can stop bullets and old fashioned cannons, but can be penetrated by grenades, light modern cannons and all larger weapons. Tanks and half tracks can drive through wood forts.

The easiest way to beat walls is to fire over them with mortars and grenades.



Some stone forts can be breached by tanks. Big cannons can put holes in stone forts, since a stone fort is not the same as a stone wall.

A soldier with a flamethrower or machine gun can fire through vision slits on pillboxes, if he is close enough.

Tanks plow through almost anything!



Tents do not stop bullets.




FReeper Foxhole Armed Services Links




TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: freeperfoxhole; history; militarytoys; samsdayoff; veterans
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To: E.G.C.
Thanks for the update on your dad.

My mother was recently hospitalized for her stomach but she wants to go back to eating what she likes against everyones best advice. My mother is very independent and she wants her hot sauce!

61 posted on 02/19/2005 1:19:02 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: LibKill

LOL. Firecrackers and Army men. Great combination for fun!


62 posted on 02/19/2005 1:20:33 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Professional Engineer
Lemme guess. It was a driver license.

Ha! Might as well have been.

63 posted on 02/19/2005 1:21:25 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
"Sam and Snippy Make Some Money Month."

Maybe we can get Congress to pass a law.

64 posted on 02/19/2005 1:37:40 PM PST by SAMWolf (My cow died so I don't need your bull anymore.)
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To: snippy_about_it
HI, snippy!

free dixie HUGS,duckie/sw

65 posted on 02/19/2005 1:45:05 PM PST by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: stand watie

!!!!!


66 posted on 02/19/2005 4:09:01 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
I didn't know that. LOL. February is National Wild Bird Feeding Month.

Hey sweet cakes!

My wife's Hummingbird Calender says tomorrow starts "Homes for Birds Week"; surely the makers of a Hummingbird Calender wouldn't lie. ;^)

Our poor birdies haven't been fed in three days. We're getting hammered with a major Pacific rain cell and I don't want all my seed/peanuts drenched.

67 posted on 02/19/2005 4:14:35 PM PST by w_over_w (Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them?)
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To: stand watie

Afternoon stand watie.


68 posted on 02/19/2005 4:18:04 PM PST by SAMWolf (My cow died so I don't need your bull anymore.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; Iris7; Aeronaut; Grzegorz 246; GailA; E.G.C.; alfa6; bentfeather; ...

I am pictured with my older wiser brother at an undisclosed location during secret war games in the 1950's.

I am flying cover with a plastic jet fighter with wing tanks.

There is a Flash Gordon space tower at the lower left with a segmented dome.

My brother's mounted scouts have arrived at the pressed metal fort.

His cast metal British soldiers man the tower and fort at lower right, augmented by green plastic Army men.

As the years went by congress gradually authorized funds for mounted knights, a castle with towers, moat and drawbridge;

A fleet of Flash Gordon space ships of molded plastic in futuristic shapes;

A stamped metal flattop with hand-cranked elevator outfitted with Corsairs with folding wings;

Kelloggs frogmen in all three configurations;

A plaster of paris terrain field over which his Dinky tanks crawled and thundered;

Any number of plastic scale models of planes, tanks, warships of all types;

Our oldest brother worked his way up from balsa Spads with Testors doped wings to vp of Ford Motor ultimately getting to play with the best toys.

Alright, Ming, drop the death ray and step away from the console.

69 posted on 02/19/2005 9:06:23 PM PST by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: PhilDragoo
Awwww Phil. What a beautiful picture of Americana at it's best. The days of innocence. We had fun with the simplest of things. Thanks for sharing this wonderful photo of you and your brother with us.

I'll leave you one of only three old photos I still have during the 50's. The start of the spankentruppen legend and of course I'm being carted around by my brother as though I was the queen as they all sport those famous newspaper sailor hats. ;-)


70 posted on 02/19/2005 10:12:32 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: w_over_w

Sounds like you need our new 18" rain guard over those feeders.

Seriously though I hope you don't have any terrible consequences from the weather like we are hearing about in some areas of Southern Cal.


71 posted on 02/19/2005 10:16:47 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
A very classy rig, a bicycle-wagon combo.

A '55 Chevy, a '53 Buick and perhaps an older DeSoto, children on the sidewalk in non-gang-related activity--

Those were the days.

72 posted on 02/19/2005 10:22:01 PM PST by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: Valin
"1859 Dan Sickles is acquitted of murder on grounds of temporary insanity 1st time this defense is successfully used"

This is the very same Dan Sickles, later Major General USA, who so very nearly lost Gettysburg for the Union on the Second Day. Tasked to defend the Little Round top - Big Round Top area, Sickles decided on this own that he didn't like that, didn't wanna, didn't hafta. Meade was really angry. 20th Maine died to hold the line Sickles was ordered to defend.

Pretty obvious in Sickles' case that if he suffered from insanity there was nothing whatever temporary about it.
73 posted on 02/19/2005 11:57:38 PM PST by Iris7 (.....to protect the Constitution from all enemies, both foreign and domestic. Same bunch, anyway.)
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To: PhilDragoo

You know your cars. Could easily be a DeSoto.

Good honest machines, the lot of them.


74 posted on 02/20/2005 12:11:14 AM PST by Iris7 (.....to protect the Constitution from all enemies, both foreign and domestic. Same bunch, anyway.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf
I am not good at what you two do here at the Foxhole. I become immeshed in the twisting and turning byways of the past, of myth, looking for illumination of the dark secret at the heart of being human. I am esoteric in my tastes.

Also I do not hero worship, do not make saints of men in the past, but try, as impossible is the quest, to see them as they were, to understand them a little.

Anyway, one of my favorite guys is Regulus (First Punic War).




" I know, to be sure, that manifest destruction awaits me, for it is impossible to keep the Punii from learning the advice I have given... but I have sworn to them to return and I will not transgress my oaths." Speech by Regulus, quoted by Zonaras

After his defeat near modern Tunis by the Carthaginians, Regulus was taken prisoner and sent back to Rome to argue in favor of peace on the condition that if he failed he would return to Carthage. Regulus persuaded the Senate to fight on, but true to his word, he returned to Carthage, where he was tortured to death.

As the First Punic War broke out, Rome needed experienced generals and in 256BC, Regulus was consul. After a naval victory at Economus, he invaded Africa and captured the cities of Apsis and Tunis. He made peace overtures to the Punii but his terms were rejected.

Carthage then hired a Spartan mercenary called Xanthippus to deal with Regulus. The Greek quickly incorporated more cavalry and elephants into the Punic army and lured Regulus onto the open plain, and out of the mountains, where the Punic cavalry and elephants were effectively used. The Romans were heavily defeated and made Regulus prisoner.


From an 19th Century account:

Marcus Atilius Regulus, died c.250 BC
Roman general and statesman in the First Punic War. His career was seen by the Romans as a model of heroic endurance. Regulus served as consul in 267, when he conquered the Sallentini and captured Brundisium and obtained in consequence the honour of a triumph.

He became consul a second time (256) when he and his colleague Lucius Manlius Vulso Longus defeated the Carthaginian fleet off Mount Ecnomus, in southeast Sicily, and landed a large force in Africa. They met with great and striking success; and after Manlius returned to Rome with half of the army, leaving Regulus to finish the war.

Regulus prosecuted the war with the utmost vigour. The Carthaginian generals Hasdrubal, Bostar, and Hamilcar avoided the plains, where their cavalry and elephants would have given them an advantage over the Roman army, and withdrew into the mountains. There they were attacked by Regulus, and defeated at Adys, near Carthage with great loss; 15,000 men are said to have been killed in battle, and 5000 men with 18 elephants to have been taken.

The Carthaginian troops retired within the walls of the city, and Regulus now overran the country without opposition. Numerous towns fell into the power of the Romans, and among others Tunis, at the distance of only twenty miles from the capital. The Carthaginians, in despair, sent a herald to Regulus to solicit peace; but the Roman general would only grant it on such intolerable terms that the Carthaginians resolved to continue the war, and hold out to the last.

In the midst of their distress and alarm, success came to them from an unexpected quarter. Among the Greek mercenaries who had lately arrived at Carthage was a Lacedaemonian of the name of Xanthippus. He pointed out to the Carthaginians that their defeat was owing to the incompetency of their generals, and not to the superiority of the Roman arms; and he inspired such confidence in the people that he was forthwith placed at the head of their troops. Relying on his 4000 cavalry and 100 elephants, Xanthippus boldly marched into the open country to meet the enemy. In the battle which ensued Regulus was totally defeated; 30,000 of his men were slain; scarcely 2000 escaped to Clypea; and Regulus himself was taken prisoner with 500 more (B.C. 255).

Regulus remained in captivity for the next five years, till 250, when the Carthaginians, after their defeat by the proconsul Metellus, sent an embassy to Rome to solicit peace, or at least an exchange of prisoners. They allowed Regulus to accompany the ambassadors on the promise that he would return to Rome if their proposals were declined, thinking that he would persuade his countrymen to agree to an exchange of prisoners in order to obtain his own liberty.

This mission of Regulus is one of the most celebrated stories in Roman history. The orators and poets related how Regulus at first refused to enter the city as a slave of the Carthaginians; how afterwards he would not give his opinion in the Senate, as he had ceased by his captivity to be a member of that illustrious body; how, at length, when he was allowed by the Romans to speak, he endeavoured to dissuade the Senate from assenting to a peace, or even to an exchange of prisoners, and when he saw them wavering, from their desire of redeeming him from captivity, how he told them that the Carthaginians had given him a slow poison, which would soon terminate his life; and how, finally, when the Senate through his influence refused the offers of the Carthaginians, he firmly resisted all the persuasions of his friends to remain in Rome, and returned to Carthage, where a martyr's death awaited him.

On his arrival at Carthage he is said to have been put to death with the most excruciating tortures.

Regulus, after returning to Rome, is killed by being rolled down a hill in a barrel of spikes.

It was related that he was placed in a chest covered over in the inside with iron nails, and thus perished; and other writers stated in addition that after his eyelids had been cut off he was first thrown into a dark dungeon, and then suddenly exposed to the full rays of a burning sun.




A dude.
75 posted on 02/20/2005 1:12:26 AM PST by Iris7 (.....to protect the Constitution from all enemies, both foreign and domestic. Same bunch, anyway.)
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To: Iris7
Speaking of Romans and Carthaginian elephants, the elephants in Regulus' day scared the Roman troops and were effective against them.

The Carthaginians would make a shield wall, and when advancing the elephants open up a fairly wide path in the shield wall for them, perhaps twenty yards wide.

The younger, more agile, and fleet of foot Romans who desired the admiration of all would run around to the rear of the elephant and throw a pilum (mean, heavy javelin with a yard long penetrator and a double sided blade) at the tender spot just under the elephant's tail. This would upset the elephant, and make him decide that he had had enough that day, and the elephant leaving the scene would usually leave through the Carthaginian tightly packed ranks.
76 posted on 02/20/2005 1:29:31 AM PST by Iris7 (.....to protect the Constitution from all enemies, both foreign and domestic. Same bunch, anyway.)
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To: snippy_about_it

This is from Centcom.

Notice the eye lock between the Afgan on the right and the young woman sargent. This is very cool. The young lady is an effective asset.

77 posted on 02/20/2005 1:57:54 AM PST by Iris7 (.....to protect the Constitution from all enemies, both foreign and domestic. Same bunch, anyway.)
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To: PhilDragoo
Morning Phil Dragoo

Kelloggs frogmen in all three configurations;

I had them too, the guy with the torch was my favorite.

I had three sisters, who I could sometimes convince to make a half-hearted attempt to go to war. I tried once to make a balsa model, a P-40, it was a miserable failure and I stuck to plastic kits. As a kid, most didn't survive my sisters or ultimately, my firecrackers.

When I got older, the models I had built since High School didn't survive the In-laws attempt to "help" me move them to Oregon.

78 posted on 02/20/2005 5:06:19 AM PST by SAMWolf (My cow died so I don't need your bull anymore.)
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To: snippy_about_it

AWWWW! A little Snippy about it. :-)


79 posted on 02/20/2005 5:08:33 AM PST by SAMWolf (My cow died so I don't need your bull anymore.)
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To: Iris7
Morning Iris7

The Carthaginians would make a shield wall, and when advancing the elephants open up a fairly wide path in the shield wall for them, perhaps twenty yards wide.

The younger, more agile, and fleet of foot Romans who desired the admiration of all would run around to the rear of the elephant and throw a pilum (mean, heavy javelin with a yard long penetrator and a double sided blade) at the tender spot just under the elephant's tail. This would upset the elephant, and make him decide that he had had enough that day, and the elephant leaving the scene would usually leave through the Carthaginian tightly packed ranks.

Reminds me of this scene from "Lord of the Rings"

80 posted on 02/20/2005 5:24:19 AM PST by SAMWolf (My cow died so I don't need your bull anymore.)
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