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The FReeper Foxhole Revisits The Military Jeep - Jan. 14th, 2005
see educational sources

Posted on 01/13/2005 8:47:48 PM PST by snippy_about_it



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.



...................................................................................... ...........................................

U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues

Where Duty, Honor and Country
are acknowledged, affirmed and commemorated.

Our Mission:

The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans.

In the FReeper Foxhole, Veterans or their family members should feel free to address their specific circumstances or whatever issues concern them in an atmosphere of peace, understanding, brotherhood and support.

The FReeper Foxhole hopes to share with it's readers an open forum where we can learn about and discuss military history, military news and other topics of concern or interest to our readers be they Veteran's, Current Duty or anyone interested in what we have to offer.

If the Foxhole makes someone appreciate, even a little, what others have sacrificed for us, then it has accomplished one of it's missions.

We hope the Foxhole in some small way helps us to remember and honor those who came before us.

To read previous Foxhole threads or
to add the Foxhole to your sidebar,
click on the books below.

The FReeper Foxhole Revisits

The Military Jeep



How it all began



In the beginning...
Prior to the Second World War, the United States Army had been looking for a fast, lightweight, all-terrain command and reconnaissance vehicle. Several vehicles had been used but none were ideal for the Armys needs.

In early 1940, as Nazi Germany began to win victories in Europe and North Africa, the need to quickly develop this type of vehicle became very urgent. The U.S. Army sent out specifications to car manufacturers asking for working prototype vehicles to be delivered in only 49 days.

The American Bantam Car Company (formerly The American Austin Car Company) and Willys-Overland were the only two companies that responded to the Army's request, although 135 companies had been contacted.

The depression of the 1930's had sent The American Austin Car Company broke, and American Bantam, which had been formed in the subsequent reorganisation had fared little better. By the time the Army asked for expressions of interest in a new command and reconnaissance car, production at American Bantam had ceased and they had no engineering staff left on the payroll.

The 49-day deadline was a huge problem, and Willys-Overland asked for more time to finish their vehicle but were refused by the Army.


This is the first Bantam prototype just prior to delivery, Designer Karl Probst in the passenger seat and Bantam manager, Harold Crist in the drivers seat. Note the rounded front fenders and grill.


Bantam's only chance to meet this deadline was to bring in outside help. Bantam's savior was Karl Probst, a talented freelance engineer from Detroit. After turning down an initial request from Bantam, Probst accepted the job after being asked again by the Army, and initially working without salary, went to work July 17, 1940.

In only two days Probst had completely laid out plans for the Bantam prototype, and the next day he estimated the total cost of the vehicle. On July 22, Bantam's bid was submitted, complete with blueprints. The bid claimed that the vehicle met the weight limit of 1,300 pounds (590 kg) although it was actually much heavier.

Much of the vehicle had to be assembled from existing off-the-shelf automotive parts, and the custom four wheel drive train components were supplied by Spicer. As the principal sub-contractor, Spicer's ability to manufacture the drivetain components in time was critical to Bantam's chance of meeting the Army deadline.

Bantam's first hand-built prototype was complete and running by September 21, 1940, just meeting the 49-day deadline and was delivered to the Army for testing at Camp Holabird, MD. The Quartermaster Corps put this prototype through torturous off road trials, after which the testers concluded "this vehicle demonstrated ample power and all requirements of the service."

Willys-Overland and Ford soon submitted prototypes based on the Bantam plans (supplied to them by the Army). Spicer supplied almost identical four wheel drive trains to all three manufacturers. The Willys "Quad" and the Ford "Pygmy" prototypes added their own changes and modifications to the basic Bantam design.


The Willys 'Quad' Prototype.


This ultimately worked to Willys advantage when the weight limit was increased: it was the only vehicle that met the Army's power specifications. In fact, the Willys 60 horse power "Go Devil" engine, with 105 foot-pounds of torque not only exceeded the required power, but dwarfed Bantam's 83 and Ford's 85 pound-feet of torque.

All three prototypes passed army testing satisfactorily, with changes being made to correct faults in the prototypes. The Army ordered 1500 units from each of the three companies. Ford started deliveries in April 1941 with Bantam and Willys a few weeks later.


The Ford 'Pygmy' Prototype


Once delivered, they started a revolution in the use of small military motor vehicles in the U.S. Army. Motorcycles, solo and side car, were rendered obsolete almost immediately.

In light of Bantam's shaky manufacturing and financial position, and the advantages of the Willys-Overland vehicle and their proven production capacity, the final mass production Army contract was awarded to Willys-Overland. The price was $749 each.

Since the War Department required a large number of vehicles to be manufactured in a relatively short time, Willys-Overland granted the United States Government a non-exclusive license to allow another company to manufacture vehicles using Willys' specifications. The Army chose Ford as the second supplier, but building Jeeps to the Willys' design. Willys supplied Ford with a complete set of plans and specifications. Sadly, American Bantam, the creators of the first Jeep, spent the rest of the war building heavy duty trailers for the army and finally sold out in 1956. Willys registered Jeep as a trademark in 1950 but cannot claim that they designed the Jeep.


The final Jeep production model, a Willys MB (Model B). The Ford GPW was almost identical.


By the time the United States entered the War in December 1941, Jeep production was in full swing. About 640,000 Jeeps were built in the four years until the end of the war in 1945. Over 360,000 of these were manufactured by Willys and the balance by Ford. This was about 18% of all the wheeled military vehicles built in the US during the War.

Jeeps were used by every division of the U.S. Military and 144 Jeeps were supplied to every infantry regiment in the U.S. Army. Large numbers of Jeeps were shipped to the Allied Forces of Britain and Russia - nearly 30% of total Jeep production.

An amphibious version was also produced called a Seep. They were not a military success as they were too small to be a good boat, and too cumbersome to be a good Jeep. Only about 18,000 were built by Ford.


A Ford GPA (Seep)


Jeeps could be fitted with .30" or .50" calibre machine guns for combat. They were also widely modified for long range desert patrol, snow ploughing, telephone cable laying, saw milling, as fire fighting pumpers, field ambulances, tractors and, with suitable wheels, would even run on railway tracks.


MB or GPW with rocket launcher unit. Note second jeep with heavy MG in background.


Jeeps could be loaded into transport aircraft for rapid deployment and were also small enough to fit into the large gliders used in the D-day invasion of Europe.

General George C. Marshall, US Army Chief of Staff during World War II, and later US Secretary of State, described the Jeep as "America's greatest contribution to modern warfare". The tough, simple, go anywhere Jeep became the GI's best friend - second only to his rifle.



There is no way to know for certain where the name 'Jeep' came from, but it was slang for some time before World War II. The US Army motor pool used the word to describe any new vehicle received for testing.

One of the most likely explanations for how the word was used for the Army's new four wheel drive car was from the character 'Eugene the Jeep', who was the creation of E.C. Segar, in the very widely read 'Popeye' comic strip. Eugene was small, able to move between dimensions and could solve seemingly impossible problems.


Eugene the jeep







FReeper Foxhole Armed Services Links




TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: bantam; ford; freeperfoxhole; jeep; samsdayoff; usarmy; veterans; willysoverland
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To: snippy_about_it

Good morning


21 posted on 01/14/2005 3:20:53 AM PST by GailA (Glory be to GOD and his only son Jesus.)
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To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it
Morning, folks.

My aunt in California is having problems with her HP computer. It's been sent to HP for repairs. It's only been used for a couple of weeks so it's new.

Feels a bit chilly this morning. Cold front pushed through.

How's it going, Snippy?

22 posted on 01/14/2005 3:24:07 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: Aeronaut

Hafner Rotabuggy Flying Jeep

The work of the Airborne Forces Experimental Establishment at Ringway, Manchester, on the Rotachute from 1940 onwards led to the suggestion that the free-wheeling autogyro principles employed could also be applied to larger loads. The designer, Raoul Hafner, suggested the Rotabuggy, a Jeep (or "Blitz Buggy") with rotors, and the Rotatank, a similarly modified Valentine tank. A development contract was placed with the M.L. Aviation Company at White Waltham in 1942, covered by specification 10/42.

Preliminary tests involved loading a Jeep with concrete and dropping it from heights of up to 7 ft. 8 in. (2.35 m.), demonstrating that the standard vehicle could survive undamaged from impacts of up to 11g. A 46 ft. 8 in. (12.4 m.) dia. two-blade rotor was then fitted, as well as a streamlined tail fairing with twin rudderless fins. Other additions were Perspex door panels, a 'hanging' rotor control next to the steering wheel and a rotor tachometer and glider navigational instruments.

The Rotabuggy, camouflaged, carrying RAF roundels and a prototype "P", was tow tested behind a 4½ litre supercharged Bentley, and achieved gliding speeds of up to 65 mph (105 km/h) IAS.
The first flight was made on November 16, 1943. Later, some flights were made behind a Whitley bomber from Sherbourne-in-Elmet.

One witness described how she watched a Whitley take off with a Jeep in tow, circle and land. The Jeep, still in tow, did not touch down at the same time, and the witness realised that its occupants "were unhappy". With the pilot holding the hanging control column and the driver clutching the steering wheel, the Jeep made a series of up and down movements, whilst the audience hoped it would stall on a 'down' rather than an 'up'.

This it fortunately did, the driver taking over and driving flat-out after the Whitley, to which it remained attached. When it stopped, nobody got out for a while; the pilot was then assisted out and lay down beside the runway to recover. Apparently he was exhausted from trying to control the joystick, which had whipped in circles for the whole flight.

Apparently this flight was one of the worst, and the handling and flying qualities of the Rotabuggy were officially recorded as "highly satisfactory", especially when large tail fins had been fitted and greater rotor blade articulation provided. However, development of Horsa II and Hamilcar vehicle carrying gliders made further development of the idea unnecessary.


23 posted on 01/14/2005 3:25:25 AM PST by SAMWolf (An opinion is what you have when you don't have any facts.)
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To: All

We have an early breakfast meeeting and then seminars for the day. We'll try and check in during any breaks we get since they're all at the Hotel today.


24 posted on 01/14/2005 3:31:03 AM PST by SAMWolf (An opinion is what you have when you don't have any facts.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; All

January 14, 2005

A Stone In The Mouth

Read: Proverbs 18:1-8

A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul. —Proverbs 18:7

Bible In One Year: Genesis 43-46


We would all cringe at the thought of a mouth full of gravel. But a stone in the mouth can actually be desirable—at least that seems to be true for the cranes that inhabit the Taurus mountains of southern Turkey.

These cranes tend to cackle a lot, especially while flying. All that noise gets the attention of eagles, who swoop down and seize them for a meal. The experienced cranes avoid this threat by picking up stones large enough to fill their mouths. This prevents them from cackling—and from becoming lunch for the eagles.

People have a problem with their mouths too. The writer of Proverbs said, "He who guards his mouth preserves his life, but he who opens wide his lips shall have destruction" (13:3). "A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calls for blows" (18:6). How many of our troubles could be prevented if we would learn to control our tongues! How much of the heartache we cause others could be avoided if we would guard our speech!

Are you having a problem with your tongue? Try this: Ask the Lord for His help. Think before speaking. Let your words be few. Following that formula can be as effective as a stone in the mouth. —Richard De Haan

Lord, help me watch the words I say
And keep them few and sweet,
For I don't know from day to day
Which ones I'll have to eat. —Anon.

Mind what you say, or you might say whatever comes to mind.

25 posted on 01/14/2005 5:27:18 AM PST by The Mayor (When trouble overtakes you, let God take over)
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To: snippy_about_it

On This Day In History


Birthdates which occurred on January 14:
1592 Sjihab al-Din Sultan Choerram Sjah Djahan leader of India
1741 Benedict Arnold US General turned traitor (Revolutionary War)
1730 William Whipple merchant/judge/patriot (Declaration of Independence signer)
1791 Calvin Phillips became shortest known adult male (67cm; 2'2")
1806 Matthew Fontaine Maury Naval Commander (Confederacy)
1819 Frederick Steele Major General (Union volunteers), died in 1868
1831 John Bullock Clark Jr Brigadier General (Confederate Army), died in 1903
1836 [Hugh] Judson Kilpatrick Major General (Union volunteers), died in 1881
1861 Mehmed VI last sultan of Ottoman Empire (1918-22)
1874 Thornton Waldo Burgess author (Peter Rabbit)
1875 Albert Schweitzer doctor/humanitarian/organist (Nobel 1952)
1886 Hugh Lofting English/American writer & illustrator (Dr Dolittle)
1892 Hal Roach early film director/producer (1 Million BC)
1892 Martin Niemöller clergyman (German Protestant); imprisoned by Hitler
1899 Fritz Bayerlein German Lieutenant-General (WWI, Poland, Libya, St Louis)
1906 William Bendix New York City NY, actor (Lifeboat, Babe Ruth Story, Life of Riley)
1907 Derek Richter British neuro chemist (Aspects of learning & memory)
1914 Harold Russell actor (Best Years of Our Life)
1919 Andy Rooney Albany NY, CBS news correspondent (60 Minutes)
1919 Giulio Andreotti 7 x premier (Italy)
1936 Clarence Carter US singer (Thread the Needle)
1938 Jack Jones Los Angeles CA, singer (Love Boat Theme)
1940 Julian Bond Nashville TN, (D-GA) civil rights leader
1941 [Dorothy] Faye Dunaway Bascom FL, actress (Chinatown, Bonnie & Clyde)
1948 Carl Weathers New Orleans LA, actor (Apollo Creed-Rocky)
1948 T-Bone Burnett musician/producer
1951 Gil Pak Jong Korea, judo (Olympics-1976)
1958 Colin Ferguson murderer (6 people on the Long Island Railroad on Dec 7, 1993)
1968 L L Cool J [James Todd Smith], St Albans NY, rapper (Bigger & Deffer)



Deaths which occurred on January 14:
0973 Ekkehard I monk of St Gallen (Vita Waltharii manu fortis), dies
1163 Ladislaus I Arpad king of Hungary (1162-63), dies
1237 St Sava son of Serbia's king, dies
1742 Edmund Halley genius eclipsed by Newton, dies at 86
1766 Frederik V king of Denmark/Norway (1746-66), dies at 42
1822 Franz Innocenz Joseph Kobell German landscape painter, dies at 72
1830 Johann G Repsold German instrument maker, dies at 59
1898 Reverend Charles L Dodgson better known as Lewis Carroll, dies at 66
1905 Ernst Abbe German physicist (Carl Zeiss Optics Company), dies at 64
1948 Anna "Ans" van Dike Dutch Jewish Nazi-collaborator, executed at 42
1957 Humphrey Bogart actor (Casablanca, Caine Mutiny), dies at 57
1977 Abdul Razak bin Hussain premier of Malaysia (1970-77), dies at 53
1978 Blossom Rock actress (Grandmamma-Addams Family), dies at 81
1984 Ray Kroc founder of MacDonalds/owner San Diego Padres, dies at 82
1986 Donna Reed actress (Donna Reed Show, Dallas), dies of cancer at 64
1991 Sallah Kharaf [Abu Iyad], co-founder (Al-Fatah), assassinated


Reported: MISSING in ACTION

1964 HICKMAN VINCENT JOSEPH---NEW YORK NY.
[ACFT CRASH EXPLODE BURN]
1964 MITCHELL CARL BERG---MT STERLING KY.
ACFT CRASH EXPLODE BURN]
1966 PRUNER WILLIAM R.
[01/17/66 REMAINS RECOVERED]
1967 CANUP FRANKLIN H. JR.---CONCORD NC.
1968 HORNE STANLEY W.---LOS ANGELES CA/
[REMAINS RETURNED 4/08/90, I.D. 11/14/90]
1968 LEBERT RONALD M.---WATERTOWN SD.
[03/14/73 RELEASED BY DRV, ALIVE IN 98]
1968 SUMPTER THOMAS W.---NASHVILLE TN.
[03/14/73 RELEASED BY DRV, DECEASED 02/26/95]
1968 TERRELL IRBY D.---HOUSTON TX.
[03/14/73 RELEASED BY DRV, ALIVE AND WELL 98]
1968 WALKER HUBERT C.---TULSA OK.
[03/14/73 RELEASED BY DRV, ALIVE AND WELL 98]
1969 GUGGENBERGER GARY J.---COLD SPRING MN.
[02/12/73 RELEASED BY PRG INJURED, ALIVE IN 98]

POW / MIA Data & Bios supplied by
the P.O.W. NETWORK. Skidmore, MO. USA.


On this day...
1236 English king Henry III marries Eleonora of Provence
1526 Charles V & Francis I sign Treaty of Madrid; Francis I forced to give up claims in Burgundy, Italy & Flanders
1601 Church authorities burn Hebrew books in Rome
1639 1st Connecticut constitution (Fundamental Orders) adopted in Hartford
1641 United East Indian Company conquerors city of Malakka, 7,000 killed
1659 Battle at Elvas Portuguese beat Spanish
1690 Clarinet is invented, in Nüremberg, Germany
1699 Massachusetts holds day of fasting for wrongly persecuting "witches"
1724 Spanish King Philip V abdicates throne
1784 Revolutionary War ends; Congress ratifies the Treaty of Paris
1785 Mozart completes "Dissonantenkwartet" (opus 10)
1794 Dr Jessee Bennet of Edom VA, performs 1st successful Cesarean section operation on his wife
1799 Eli Whitney receives government contract for 10,000 muskets
1814 King of Denmark cedes Norway to King of Sweden by treaty of Kiel
1863 Battle between gunboats at Bayou Teched LA
1864 Battle of Cosby Creek TN
1864 General Sherman begins his march to the South
1868 South Carolina constitutional convention, meets with a black majority
1873 "Celluloid" registered as a trademark
1878 US Supreme court rules race separation on trains unconstitutional
1900 Giacomo Puccini's opera "Tosca" premieres in Rome
1914 Henry Ford introduces assembly line, for T-Fords
1918 Finland & USSR adopts New Style (Gregorian) calendar
1927 Toronto Maple Leafs 1st hat trick (Hap Day) vs New York Rangers
1929 Afghan King Amanullah forced to resign
1932 1st totalisator (to record racetrack bets) in US installed, Hialeah
1932 Horse racing legend Eddie Arcaro won his 1st race
1935 Oil pipeline Iraq-Mediterranean goes into use
1938 National Society for the Legalization of Euthanasia formed (NY)
1940 NFL Pro Bowl Green Bay beats NFL All-Stars 16-7
1942 Japanese troops land at oil center Balikpapan in Borneo
1943 FDR & Winston Churchill confer in Casablanca concerning WWII
1944 Soviet army begins offensive at Oranienbaum/Wolchow
1949 Black/Indian race rebellion in Durban, South Africa; 142 die
1950 US recalls all consular officials from China
1952 "Today Show" premieres with Dave Garroway & Jack Lescoulie on NBC-TV
1953 Yugoslavia elects its 1st president (Marshal Tito)
1954 Marilyn Monroe marries baseball star, New York Yankee, Joe DiMaggio
1956 Little Richard releases "Tutti Frutti"
1960 US Army promoted Elvis Presley to Sergeant
1963 George C Wallace sworn in as Governor of Alabama, his address states "segregation now; segregation tomorrow; segregation forever!"
1967 20,000 attend the Human Be-In, San Francisco
1967 Sonny & Cher release "The Beat Goes On"
1967 Earthquake in Sicily kills 231
1968 Super Bowl II Green Bay Packers beat Oakland Raiders, 1969 25 members of US aircraft carrier Enterprise die during maneuvers
1972 "Sanford & Son" starring Redd Foxx premieres on NBC TV
1973 Tap dancer Ray Castle measured at 1440 taps/minutes on BBC TV
1975 USSR breaks trade agreement with US
1976 Ted Turner becomes CEO of Atlanta Braves
1979 President Carter proposes Martin Luther King's birthday be a holiday
1980 "Blues Brothers" movie with Dan Akroyd & John Belushi opens(We're on a mission from God)
1981 FCC frees stations to air as many commercials an hour as they wish
1985 16 indicted by US for granting sanctuary to Central American refugees
1987 Catfish Hunter & Billy Williams are elected to Baseball Hall of Fame
1989 29 year old French woman gives birth to sextuplets in Paris
1989 1,000 muslims burn Rushdies' "Satanic Verses" in Bradford England
1990 "Simpsons" premiered on Fox-TV
1993 David Letterman announces his show is moving from NBC to CBS


Holidays
Note: Some Holidays are only applicable on a given "day of the week"
Julian calendar : New Year's Day in 20th, 21st centuries
Bulgaria : Vinegrower's Day
Maryland : Ratification Day (1784)
US : Make Your Dreams Come True Day
US : Man Watcher's Week (Day 4)
National Oatmeal Month


Religious Observances
Orthodox : Circumcision of Jesus
Roman Catholic : Commemoration of St Felix of Nola, priest/martyr
Greek Orthodox : St Basil's Day
old Roman Catholic : Feast of St Hilary, bishop/doctor (now 1/13)
Christian : Feast of St Sava
Lutheran : Commemoration of Eivind Berggrav, bishop of Oslo


Religious History
1529 Spanish reformer Juan de Valdes, 29, published his "Dialogue on Christian Doctrine," which paved the way in Spain for Protestant ideas. But his treatise was condemned by the Spanish Inquisition, and Valdes was forced to flee Spain, never to return
1604 The Hampton Court Conference opened in London, during which Puritan representatives met with their monarch, King James I, to discuss reform within the Church of England.
1893 Pope Leo XIII appointed Archbishop Francesco Satolli as the Vatican's first Apostolic Delegate to the United States.
1966 French-born American trappist monk Thomas Merton wrote in a letter: 'The best way to solve the problem of rendering to Caesar what is Caesar's is to have nothing that is Caesar's.'
1972 American Presbyterian apologist Francis Schaeffer wrote in a letter: 'I have come to the conclusion that none of us in our generation feels as guilty about sin as we should or as our forefathers did.'

Source: William D. Blake. ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1987.


Thought for the day :
"You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm."


note to self: While Jan 14 an Jan 4 are very close and both have the number 4 in them they are not repeat NOT the same.


26 posted on 01/14/2005 6:36:49 AM PST by Valin (Sometimes you're the bug, and sometimes you're the windshield)
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To: snippy_about_it; bentfeather; Samwise; msdrby
Good morning ladies. It's Friday!

Friday Foxhole FReeper Flag-o-gram.

27 posted on 01/14/2005 6:37:12 AM PST by Professional Engineer (I miss the old FreeRepublic. The one where we didn't give crap about the DUmmies' doings.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; Professional Engineer; alfa6; The Mayor; Matthew Paul; radu; msdrby; ...

Good morning, FOXHOLE!!

28 posted on 01/14/2005 6:48:44 AM PST by Soaring Feather
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To: Valin
1960 US Army promoted Elvis Presley to Sergeant

note to self: While Jan 14 an Jan 4 are very close and both have the number 4 in them they are not repeat NOT the same

Those 76 day months just get too confusing. ;-)

29 posted on 01/14/2005 7:25:18 AM PST by SAMWolf (An opinion is what you have when you don't have any facts.)
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To: The Mayor

Morning Mayor


30 posted on 01/14/2005 7:25:42 AM PST by SAMWolf (An opinion is what you have when you don't have any facts.)
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To: Professional Engineer

Morning PE. They let us out on a quick break.


31 posted on 01/14/2005 7:26:19 AM PST by SAMWolf (An opinion is what you have when you don't have any facts.)
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To: bentfeather

Hi Feather.


32 posted on 01/14/2005 7:26:35 AM PST by SAMWolf (An opinion is what you have when you don't have any facts.)
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To: snippy_about_it
i wish i could find a WW2 jeep to restore.

all the ones back home have been made into tractors,electric generators, hay movers, etc,etc,etc.

free dixie,sw

33 posted on 01/14/2005 8:36:42 AM PST by stand watie ( being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: The Mayor

Excellent message today, Mr. Mayor.


34 posted on 01/14/2005 8:48:20 AM PST by tomball
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf

Good Afternoon, Foxhole. 

Excellent Jeep thread.

 

M151 MUTTS

 

35 posted on 01/14/2005 9:08:34 AM PST by tomball
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To: E.G.C.

I have owned three HP computer and have had major problems with all of them, will not own a fourth one.

Btw it is a balmy 9 F here in Kansas City at noon today, at least the sun is out. A small consolation, very small.

Regards

alfa6 ;>}


36 posted on 01/14/2005 10:00:45 AM PST by alfa6 (It's tough to see the big picture when you have such a small screen)
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To: SAMWolf

Check out the aerodynamics of that beast!


37 posted on 01/14/2005 10:10:21 AM PST by Professional Engineer (I miss the old FreeRepublic. The one where we didn't give crap about the DUmmies' doings.)
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To: stand watie

You might enjoy the Willys Tech site:

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/WillysTech/messages


38 posted on 01/14/2005 10:18:51 AM PST by PeterPrinciple (seeking the truth here folks.)
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To: Valin
note to self: While Jan 14 an Jan 4 are very close and both have the number 4 in them they are not repeat NOT the same.

ROFLMAO. I was having de ja vu all over again.

39 posted on 01/14/2005 10:22:38 AM PST by Professional Engineer (I miss the old FreeRepublic. The one where we didn't give crap about the DUmmies' doings.)
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To: bentfeather

Hi miss Feather


40 posted on 01/14/2005 10:23:05 AM PST by Professional Engineer (I miss the old FreeRepublic. The one where we didn't give crap about the DUmmies' doings.)
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