The FReeper Foxhole's TreadHead Tuesday - the British Cruiser Tanks - Dec. 21st, 2004

users.swing.be ^ | August, 2001 | LemaireSoft

[SAMWolf]

Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.

.................................................................. .................... ...........................................

U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues

Where Duty, Honor and Country
are acknowledged, affirmed and commemorated.

Our Mission:

The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans.

In the FReeper Foxhole, Veterans or their family members should feel free to address their specific circumstances or whatever issues concern them in an atmosphere of peace, understanding, brotherhood and support.

The FReeper Foxhole hopes to share with it's readers an open forum where we can learn about and discuss military history, military news and other topics of concern or interest to our readers be they Veteran's, Current Duty or anyone interested in what we have to offer.

If the Foxhole makes someone appreciate, even a little, what others have sacrificed for us, then it has accomplished one of it's missions.

We hope the Foxhole in some small way helps us to remember and honor those who came before us.

To read previous Foxhole threads or
to add the Foxhole to your sidebar,
click on the books below.

British Cruiser Tanks

In the twenties, the British produced their last Medium Tank Mark II. The projects proposed afterwards were so expensive for the budgets of the time, that they were rejected. After more than 10 years interruption, the medium tank reappeared under the designation "Cruiser Tank". It was designed to form the backbone of the armored divisions. Although British thinkers like Fuller of Liddell-Hart were precursors in the idea of large tank units, the British army started only late to set them up.

The first generation of cruiser tanks was disastrous. The A-9 and A-10 had not only an insufficient armor, but also suffered from mechanical defects that made them unable to "go one mile without breaking a track". They were the only cruiser tanks available during the first year of the war. Their follower, the A-13, using Christie suspension, was only marginally better for the mechanic, and its armor remained insufficient.


Mark6A Crusader2 CS

The final evolution of the A-13, the Convenanter, is probably the top in the horror story of British tanks. Ordered "off the drawing board" like most of its contemporaries, it proved useless on the battlefield because of its mechanical defects. Yet 1771 were built (7% of the total number of British tanks produced during the war, at a time when any war material was at a premium) and none of them ever saw action !

With the Crusader, the British had their first acceptable cruiser tank.

Better on the mechanic, with a thicker armor, it temporarily restored the balance of quality on the battlefields of North Africa when it arrived in the end of 1941. It was the backbone of the British armored divisions until the battle of El-Alamein. At that time, it is outclassed by the latest German Panzers and it left the battlefields after the end of the campaign in Tunisia.

The Cromwell was the first British tank to get rid of both the norm of the British Railways (limiting the width of the tanks) and of the practice of "off the drawing board" orders. Thanks to previous testing with the Cavalier and Centaur prototypes, it was mechanically sound, fast, with a reasonable armor and a good autonomy. It was armed with the 7.5 cm gun, the first able to fire antipersonnel as well as antitank shells (Up to then, the 2-pounder and 6-pounder guns could only fire antitank shells). Its gun was no match for the latest German Panzers though, but the gap was reduced. The Cromwell equiped the British units from 1943 until the end of the war.


Mark1 CS

It was then time for the British to have their last horror story with tanks before turning out their first really brilliant cruiser tanks of the war. By attempting to mount an 17-pounder gun on the hull of a Cromwell, they perpetrate the dismal Challenger. More than 200 were built but very few ever saw war action since they were too handicapped by the overweight of the turret and its gun.

The first very good cruiser tank was the Comet, which reached the frontline in December 1944. It used a shortened version of the 17-pounder, could really outgun the Panzer IV and could compete with a Panther. A still better tank was ready at the end of the war, the Centurion, but it arrived too late to take part in the war.

The term "cruiser tank" is typically British. Other nations would have qualified those machines as "medium tanks", but they would have failed to capture the difference between a slow tank, intended to progress at the pace of walking men to support them, from the fast tank specialized in the pursuit and exploitation.

The history of the cruiser tanks is no success story. Ordered "off the drawing board", going over directly to mass-production, they made their tests on the battlefield, with more than often, disastrous results. The models at the start of the war (A-9, A-10, A-13) were always one generation late in face of their German opponents. Their flimsy armor was a serious handicap. Later in the war, there were some successes, like the Crusader, but they were interspesed with total failure like the Convenanter.



The first really successful model was the Cromwell. It appeared at the right moment, when its mobility coul be put in good use in the exploitation phase in France and later in Germany. That first success was followed by two others in a row: the Comet and the Centurion, which had brilliant careers after the war.

A-9


A-9 tank, infantry support version with a 3.7 inch howitzer in the turret on a tank-carrying truck. Note the two bogies with 3 road-wheels each, common between the A-9, A-10 and Valentine tanks. The auxiliary turret is visible on the front of the hull.

Named A-9 or Cruiser Mark I. The British doctrine planned, besides infantery tanks, a "Cruiser" tank for the armor mission in large tank units. The A-9 was the first tank aimed at that.

The A-9 was far from perfect. Its armor was flimsy and it was mechanically fragile. It represented the quarter of all cruiser tanks at the onset of the war. It took part in the campaign in France and then fought in Africa against the Italians. Its intervention in Greece in 1941 cost much due to numerous mechanical breakdowns. It appeared for the last time on the battlefield during the disastrous operation "Battleaxe" in June 1941.


Mark1 A9 E1 prototype

Identification: Like the Valentine or the A-10, it had an running gear with two bogies with three road-wheels each. Its tracks were narrower than those of the Valentine, whereas it had an auxiliary turret with MG's in front of the vehicule, while the A-10 had none.

A-10


An A-10 on its way to the frontline for the operation "Battleaxe". The mechanical fragility of the first British cruiser tanks forced them to use extensively tank-carrying vehicles. (Picture: Imperial War Museum)

Named A-10 or Cruiser Mark II. Planned as an infantery support tank, its armor was deemed insufficient for that mission. Thus it became a cruiser tank, although its speed was insufficient.

It fought in France, in Africa, in Greece, where it distinguished itself by its numerous mechanical breakdowns. It went on fighting in North Africa until the end of 1941. "Crusader" was the last war action it took part in.


Mark 2A A10

Identification: Very close to the A-9 externally, with the same two bogies with 3 road-wheels each. Devoid of the auxiliary turret with MG at the front.

A-13


A-13, original model with straight turret sides

The A-13 was the first real Cruiser tank. It introduced in the British armor force the Christie suspension and the idea to use an aircraft engine to propel a tank (ideas that the Russians had put into practice long before).

They barely saw combat in France in 1940 but the A-13 were very successful against the Italians in North Africa and were roughly equal to the Panzer III engaged by Rommel at his arrival there. Later, new German models overtook them and they left the frontline at the end of 1941.

Besides the A-13 Mark I and A-13 Mark II, a third series of tanks (later renamed Convenanter) were designated as "A-13". Although they were built in large numbers, they never saw action, because a faulty design made them unfit for combat !.

A-13 Mark I


Mark 3 A13 E3

Named A-13 Mark I or Cruiser Mark III. Only two units took part in the campaign of France. It fought afterwards in Libya against the Italians and then against the Germans. It was a match for the Panzer III but was overtaken in the course of 1941 by new German models. It left frontline service at the end of the year.

Identification: The introduction of the Christie suspension (large road-wheels, no return rollers) allow to differentiate the A-13 from the previous cruiser tanks (A-9 et A-10), with their bogies.

A-13 Mark II


A-13 Mark II during an excercice short before the war. Note the V-shaped sides of the turret, distinctive of the Mark II

Named A-13 Mark II or Cruiser Mark IV. The most glaring drawback of the A-13 Mark I was its insufficient protection. The next version was thus uparmored while the older units were brought up to the new standard.

The A-13 Mark II had V-shaped turret sides, different from the lightly sloped side of the Mark I. Afterwards, the Mark I got the same turret as the next model.

The history of the A-13 Mark II is the same as the original A-13. It fought in France and then in North Africa until the end of 1941.

Identification: The new turret had distinctive V-shaped sides.

Cruiser Tank Mark 4, 4A


Mark 4

A version Mark IV A got a new mantlet and a coaxial MG.


Mark 4A

Basically the Mark 4 was a upgrade of the A13. Extra armor was added for crew protection. Hollow "V" sides were fitted to the turret - though the purpose is unsure. Hollow charge shells were only then being "discovered" for anti-armor use. The upper part of the V could be used to deflect a side turret shot upwards, but why the bottom was a purposeful shot trap is clearly a mistake. The Mark 4 was in production before the Mark 3 in 1938. The Mark 4 saw action in Africa and France. Note the Christie suspension.

Convenanter


Convenanter. Thanks to its turret, it bears some ressemblance with the Crusaders. You can make the difference by looking at the road-wheels: there are only four, while the Crusader had five. Note the cooling louvres left in front the the hull.

Named A-13 Mark III or Cruiser Mark V. The idea to build a heavy cruiser tank resulted in the Convenanter, a model of the A-13 Mark II with an increased armor. The machine was plagued from the start by cooling problems, which limited its role to training in Britain. It never saw combat.


Covenanter pilot model

Identification: The turret of the Convenanter looks like the one of a Crusader, being low with sloped sides but the hull looks the same as the one of a A-13, with only four large road-wheels. The Convenanter had cooling louvres on the hull before the turret.

[SAMWolf]

Crusader

The Crusader was by excellence the tank of the desert. It first saw fire in June of 1941 on the Libyan border and then made up the bulk of the armored forces of the British forces until the end of 1942, sharing the successes and the defeats. It was the tank best represented in Montgomery's army at the battle of El Alamein.

The availibility of American built tanks, able to fire antipersonnel as well as antitank shells meant that the Crusader left the frontline after the end of the campaign in North Africa. Some were converted to repair tank, command vehicle, etc....

Identification: The low and polygonal turret of the Crusader, along with its suspension with five big road-wheels, allow to contrast the Crusader from any other British tank.

Crusader I


Crusader I with the auxiliary turret in front of the hull.

Named Crusader I or A-15 or Cruiser Mark VI. It was an enlarged version of the A-13 Mark II and of the Convenanter, with a more powerful armor. Like many British tanks, it had mechanical teething troubles but they could be solved though before its first combat. The Crusader saw action for the first time during the disastrous operation "Battleaxe" on the Libyan border but played also a major part in the successful offensive "Crusader" at the end of 1941.

Identification: The first version of the Crusader had an auxiliary turret with two (later a single) MG. That auxiliary turret is absent on the next Crusader II.

Crusader II


Crusader II. The five road-wheels which differentiates the Crusaders from the Convenanters, are clearly visible on this picture.

The first combats against German panzers in Africa proved the need for a thicker armor. The second version of the Crusader had thus a front armor increased from 40 to 50 mm. It took part in the successful "Crusader" offensive but had to face Rommel's counter-offensive towards El Alamein the next year. The Crusader formed the bulk of Montgomery's armor force during the crucial battle of El Alamein.

Although slightly superiror to the German Panzer III, the Crusader was outclassed by the newly rearmed Panzer IV F2. Its 2-pounder gun, unable to fire high-explosive shells, was almost powerless in front an antitank gun.

Identification: Very similar to the Crusader I, except that it had no secondary turret.

Crusader III


A Crusader III destroyed during the battle of Teburba in Tunisia in December of 1942. The 6-pounder gun and the flat front plate of the turret distinguishes it from the previous model.

New version of the Crusader, rearmed with a 6-pounder gun in a new turret. It arrived on the front on June 1942 and took part in the battle of El Alamein and in the campaign in Tunisia.

Identification: The model III had a bigger gun and a turret with a flat front plate, which, for ther rest, is similar to the previous Crusader II

Cavalier


Cavalier, follower of the Crusader and forerunner of the Cromwell, which was very similar to it.

Named Cavalier or Cruiser Mark VII or A-24. Interim model between the Crusader and the Cromwell. It took over the Liberty engine of the Crusader but in a new turret, with straight sides. It is armed with the 6-pounder gun and is uparmored compared to the Crusader.

This tank was not used in combat, the Cromwell was prefered.

Identification: Almost impossible to differentiate externally from the Centaur and the first versions of the Cromwell. It has the same boxy hull and turret. Christie suspension with five road-wheels.

Centaur



Named Centaur or Cruiser Mark VIII or A-27 L. Direct forerunner of the Cromwell, from which it differs only with the engine (Liberty instead of Meteor). Most of them will stay confined to training, although many will be later converted to Cromwells by exchanging the engines.


Centaur IV, infantry support version with a short 9.5 cm howitzer during the operation "Overlord". Most of the Centaurs will be reconverted in Cromwell by replacing their engine.

Identification: Impossible to differentiate from the first models of Cromwells

[SAMWolf]

Cromwell

Named Cromwell or Cruiser Mark VIII or A-27 M. The Cromwell was the most successful and most widely used British Cruiser Tank of World War II. Without being so powerful as the German panzers, it outshone them in mobility and proved its value during the exploitation phases of the campaign on the continent (France in the summer of 1944, Germany in the spring of 1945).

Cromwell I


Cromwell 1

The Cromwell resulted from the replacement in the Centaur of the original engine with an aircraft engine, the Meteor. The higher power/weight ratio gave the new tank its exceptional mobility.

Identification: The outlook of the Cromwell I is boxy, for the hull as well as for the turret. It impossible to differentiate from the Centaur. The Cromwell II had wider tracks than the original model.

Cromwell II


Cromwell 2

The second version of the Cromwell took over all the elements of the Cromwell I, except the tracks, widened up to 39 cm. It lost its hull MG to increase the internal stowage.


Cromwel 2 with VauxhallTurret

Cromwell III


Cromwell 3

The Cromwell III is a Centaur reengined with the Meteor, standard on the other versions of the Cromwell. It retained its 6-pounder gun.

Cromwell IV


Cromwell 4

With the first American made tanks they got, the British understood the value of a gun firing both anti-tank and anti-personal shells. They created their own version of a 7.5 cm gun by enlarging their 6-pounder gun.

The Cromwell IV is a Centaur rearmed with the 7.5 cm gun and reengined with a Meteor.

Cromwell V

After having adapted the new 7.5 cm gun on the Centaur, the British produced a series of Cromwells armed from the start on with that gun and mounted in a welded turret, replacing the riveted one.

Cromwell VI

Infantery support version of the Cromwell, with a shorter 9.5 cm howitzer in the turret instead of the 7.5 cm gun of the Cromwell V

Cromwell VII


Cromwell 7

Cromwell IV and Cromwell V refitted with added armor, wider tracks and another gearbox.

Cromwell VIII

Cromwell VI reworked along the same lines as the Cromwell VII, but retaining their 9.5 cm howitzer

A-33

Attempt to convert the Cromwell into a Infantry Tank by giving it a reinforced protection and wider tracks. The project is dropped after the second prototype.

Built by English Electric

Additional Sources:

mailer.fsu.edu
www.lasecondaguerramondiale.it
users.swing.be/tanks. edito

[SAMWolf]

Comet


Comet of the 11th Armourd Division in Holland at the end of 1944. Externally, the new tank has little in common with its predecessor, the Cromwell

Named Comet or A-34. The Comet was the second attempt to adapt a 17-pounder gun on the chassis of a Centaur/Cromwell. A new lightened version of the gun had appeared since the failure of the Challenger. With an enlarged chassis, a new running gear and a new turret, the design of the Comet was successful, combining the firepower of the new gun with the mobility of the original Cromwell.

The first examples reached the fontline in continental Europe at the end of 1944. Only the 11th Armoured Division used them during the war but they went on serving in the British Army until the sixties.

Identification: The return rollers above the road-wheels and the new design of the turret distinguish radically the Comet from its forerunner, the Cromwell.

Challenger


British Challenger (do not mix up with today's tank of the same name). Note the high turret and the long 17-pounder gun. The excessive top weight severly impaired the performance of the vehicle, despite the enlargement of the Cromwell-like hull.

Named Challenger or A-30. To increase the antitank capability of their Cruiser Tank units, the British tried to adapt the powerful 17-pounder gun on the chassis of a Centaur/Cromwell. The result was disastrous.

First, it was necessary to enlarge the hull to fit in the turret planned for a heavy tank. Since the whole was too heavy, the armor thickness had to be reduced. The amount of embarked ammunition was insufficient and the hull MG had to be sacrificed to increase internal stowage capacity.

The Firefly which appeared in the meantime, took over the mission of the Challenger during the campaign in Europe and only a limited number of Challengers saw action.

Identification: The Challenger has six road-wheels vs. five for the Cromwell/Centaur. Its turret is much higher and its gun longer.

Centurion


Original model of the Centurion, built but not used during World War II. The main gun is a 17-pounder, while the turret also contains a 2 cm gun.

Named A-41 or Centurion. Heavy cruiser tank, it was designed to confront the heavy German panzers. Built too late, none saw action during World War II (There were six in the 22th Armoured Brigade in May of 1945). It had in contrast a brilliant career after the war, notably in the Israelian army.

[SAMWolf]

Veterans for Constitution Restoration is a non-profit, non-partisan educational and grassroots activist organization. The primary area of concern to all VetsCoR members is that our national and local educational systems fall short in teaching students and all American citizens the history and underlying principles on which our Constitutional republic-based system of self-government was founded. VetsCoR members are also very concerned that the Federal government long ago over-stepped its limited authority as clearly specified in the United States Constitution, as well as the Founding Fathers' supporting letters, essays, and other public documents.

---

Actively seeking volunteers to provide this valuable service to Veterans and their families.

---

UPDATED THROUGH APRIL 2004



The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul

Click on Hagar for
"The FReeper Foxhole Compiled List of Daily Threads"

[alfa6]

Treadhead Tuesday Bump for the Freeper Foxhole form the last of the nite shift for two weeks, YEE HAW

This mornings Christmas Cartoon will be on the importance of wearing your seat belt!!!

Regards

alfa6 ;>}

[snippy_about_it]

Oooh. A teaser for our cartoon. Yeah!

[snippy_about_it]

"FALL IN" to the FReeper Foxhole!



It's TreadHead Tuesday!


Good Morning Everyone

If you would like added to our ping list let us know.
If you'd like to drop us a note you can write to:

The Foxhole
19093 S. Beavercreek Rd. #188
Oregon City, OR 97045

[snippy_about_it]

Free Republic Treadhead Ping





mostly cajun ;archy; Gringo1; Matthew James; Fred Mertz; Squantos; colorado tanker; The Shrew; SLB; Darksheare; BCR #226; IDontLikeToPayTaxes; Imacatfish; Tailback; DCBryan1; Eaker; Archangelsk; gatorbait; river rat; Lee'sGhost; Dionysius; BlueLancer; Frohickey; GregB; leadpenny; skepsel; Proud Legions; King Prout; Professional Engineer; alfa6; bluelancer; Cannoneer No.4; An Old Man; hookman; DMZFrank; in the Arena; Bethbg79; neverdem; NWU Army ROTC; ma bell; MoJo2001; The Sailor; dcwusmc; dts32041; spectr17; Rockpile; Theophilus;


************Snippy, I bequeath to you the FR TH PL.

148 posted on 08/24/2004 11:39:45 AM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out.)

Good morning Cannoneer.

[skepsel]

Bump and thanx for a great article from a former DAT/Scout/FDC!

[Iris7]

The Centurion was probably superior to contempory American designs except in running gear (sometimes) and drivetrain.

Isreali Centurions:

With ERA (explosive reactive armor):

ERA here closer view. Notice big gun. Lycoming engine, General Motors Allison transmission.

[Iris7]

Sorry to post something so slow to load, but such great pictures!

Get sentimental over tanks. As long as they have the priorities in the right order, armor, gun, speed. None of that breakdown business, I will have none of that.

[Aeronaut]

Good morning Snippy.

[GailA]

Good morning

[E.G.C.]

Good morning, Snippy and everyone at the Foxhole.

[SAMWolf]

Morning alfa6.

Those Christmas cartoons are gonna cost you some presents from Santa.

P.S. Keep em coming. ;-)

[SAMWolf]

Good Morning Snippy.

[SAMWolf]

You're welcome, skepsel. Thanks for the bump.

[SAMWolf]

Growing up, the Centurion and the White halftrack epitomized the IDF armored units to me. I've always tended to think of Israel rather the Britain when thinking of the Centurion.

Israeli Centurion tanks counterattacking against Syrian forces during the "October War" of 1973.

[SAMWolf]

Get sentimental over tanks.

My kind of guy!

The Foxhole has always been a "graphic heavy" thread, IMHO, one of the things good about it. So post away.

[SAMWolf]

Morning Aeronaut.