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The FReeper Foxhole Remembers The Naval Engagements of 1812 - June 24th, 2004
members.tripod.com/~war1812 ^

Posted on 06/24/2004 12:00:41 AM PDT by SAMWolf



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.


...................................................................................... ...........................................

U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues

Where Duty, Honor and Country
are acknowledged, affirmed and commemorated.

Our Mission:

The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans.

In the FReeper Foxhole, Veterans or their family members should feel free to address their specific circumstances or whatever issues concern them in an atmosphere of peace, understanding, brotherhood and support.

The FReeper Foxhole hopes to share with it's readers an open forum where we can learn about and discuss military history, military news and other topics of concern or interest to our readers be they Veteran's, Current Duty or anyone interested in what we have to offer.

If the Foxhole makes someone appreciate, even a little, what others have sacrificed for us, then it has accomplished one of it's missions.

We hope the Foxhole in some small way helps us to remember and honor those who came before us.

To read previous Foxhole threads or
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click on the books below.

President vs. Belvidera


On June 23rd 1812 at 6:00 a.m. the British frigate "Belvidera" moves close to check out what she believes to be an American squadron. The crew had been informed by a merchant ship that war may have been declared. One half hour later the British crew sees three large American frigates and tries to steer the "Belvidera" away.


USS President


Commodore Rodgers is commanding the U.S. squadron. The "President" and the "Congress" both make sail and go after the "Belvidera". The "President" is much faster and closes with the British frigate first, while the "Congress" follows. The British commander, Captain Byron orders the "Belvidera" ready for battle. Commodore Rodgers fires the bow gun of the "President" himself. The "President" fires again from their main-deck guns. Three shot have all found their mark killing or wounding nine men. This battle would have most likely ended with the next few shots fired except that the "Presidents" main-deck gun blew up when it fired for the second time, killing or wounding sixteen men. Commodore Rodgers himself was injured with a broken leg. The "Belvidera" opened fire with her stern guns killing or wounding six men. The "President" responded with a port broadside that did minor damage to the British frigate's rigging. The "Belvidera" continued to fire. The "President" moved close and fired her bow-chasers damaging the main top mast and cross-jack yard of the British ship.

The "President" fell back a short distance and fired another broadside, this did little damage. Again the Americans closed and fired the bow-chasers, these shots did much more damage than the broadsides.


Escape of H.M.S. Belvidera from the U.S. Frigate President
Thomas Buttersworth


The crew of the British frigate worked hard and repaired the damage quickly. But the damage to the sails gave the "Congress" the time it needed to catch up. The "Congress" opened fire, these shots splashed harmlessly into the ocean. The "Belvidera" changed coarse and escaped. Three days later reaching Halifax Harbour.



It must be pointed out that had the American gun not burst on the "President" this battle surely would have been over quickly. It also should be pointed out that the repairs made by the British crew while under fire enabled them to make their escape.

The Constitution vs. The Guerriere


On August 2nd 1812 the "Constitution" set sail departing from Boston and sailed east in hopes of finding some British ships. After meeting no British ships, the "Constitution" sailed along the coast of Nova Scotia, and then New Foundland, finally stationing off Cape Race in the Gulf of the St. Lawrence. It was here that the Americans captured and burned two brigs of little value. On August 15th the "Constitution" recaptured an American brig from the British ship-sloop "Avenger", however the British ship managed to escape. Captain Issac Hull put a crew on the brig and they sailed it back to an American port.


Action between USS Constitution and HMS Guerriere, 19 August 1812:
"In Action"
Oil on canvas, 32" x 48", by Michel Felice Corne (1752-1845), depicting the two frigates firing on each other, as Guerriere's mizzen mast goes over the side.


At 2:00 p.m. on August 19th the crew of the "Constitution" made out a large sail which proved to be the British frigate "Guerriere" captained by James Dacres. At 4:30 p.m. the two ships began to position themselves and hoisted their flags (colours). At 5:00 p.m. the "Guerriere" opened fire with her weather guns, the shots splashed in the water short of the American ship. The British then fired her port broadsides, two of these shots hit the American ship, the rest went over and through her rigging. As the British prepared to fire again the "Constitution" fired her port guns. The two ships were a fair distance apart, and for the next 60 minutes or so they continued like this with very little damage being done to either party.


Action between USS Constitution and HMS Guerriere, 19 August 1812:
"Dropping Astern"
Oil on canvas, 32" x 48", by Michel Felice Corne (1752-1845), depicting the Guerriere's main and fore masts collapsing from the effects of Constitution's fire.


At 6:00 p.m. they moved closer, at 6:05 p.m. the two ships were within pistol-shot of each other. A furious cannonade began, at 6:20 p.m. the "Constitution" shot away the "Guerriere's" mizzen-mast, the British ship was damaged. The "Constitution" came around the "Guerriere's" bow and delivered a heavy raking fire which shot away the British frigate's main yard. The Americans came around yet again and raked the "Guerriere". The mizzen-mast of the British ship was now dragging in the water and the two ships came in close to each other. The British bow guns did some damage to the captain's cabin of the "Constitution", a fire even started there. An American officer by the name of Lieutenant Hoffmann put the fire out.


Action between USS Constitution and HMS Guerriere, 19 August 1812
Painting by Anton Otto Fischer, depicting Guerriere's masts going over the side as Constitution rakes her from ahead.


It was about here that both crews tried to board the others ship, or at least thought about it. And it was also here where most of the "Constitution's" casualties were taken. In fact both sides suffered greatly from musketry at this point. On the "Guerriere" the loss was much greater. Captain James Dacres was shot in the back while cheering on his crew to fight. The ships finally worked themselves free of each other, and then the "Guerriere's" foremast and main-mast came crashing down leaving the British ship defenseless.


USS Constitution


At 6:30 p.m. the "Constitution" ran off a little and made repairs which only took minutes to complete. Captain Isaac Hull stood and watched at 7:00 p.m. as the battered British ship surrendered, unable to continue the fight.


Action between USS Constitution and HMS Guerriere, 19 August 1812
Oil on canvas, 46" x 64", attributed to Thomas Birch (1779-1851). It depicts Constitution standing off the dismasted British frigate's bow, as the latter strikes her flag in surrender.


The "Constitution" had a crew of 456 and carried 44 guns. The Guerriere had a crew of 272 men and carried 38 guns. The American casualties were 14, which included Lieutenant William S. Bush, of the marines, and six seamen killed. And her first lieutenant, Charles Morris, Master, John C. Alwyn, four seamen, and one marine wounded. Total seven killed and seven wounded. Almost all the American casualties came from the enemy musketry when the two ships came together. The British lost 23 killed and mortally wounded, including her second lieutenant, Henry Ready, and 56 wounded severely and slightly, including Captain Dacres for a total of 79. The rest of the British crew became prisoners.



TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: canada; england; freeperfoxhole; greatlakes; usnavy; veterans; warof1812
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To: Lee Heggy
I'd love to visit Oregon once again

Just give us a holler!

81 posted on 06/24/2004 10:45:42 PM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: PhilDragoo; Professional Engineer; SAMWolf; snippy_about_it
The war of 1812 story has another side from the Navy perspective. The big American frigates were not a technological innovation from the English point of view, but mere "razee", a sort of cut down first rate, a vessel with the upper gun deck not built on. In this point of view the American razees simply out powered the English frigates, which had fewer and less powerful guns, and were much smaller and lighter overall. This technological trade off was well understood by the English, who employed many razee.

There is also the Chesapeake vs. Shannon fight, where English razee utterly dominated and captured American. This event so embarrasses the US Navy that lies are told to this day. The Aubrey - Maturin stories cover the story well from the English - and more accurate - perspective.

Myself, I am embarrassed and chagrined that the United States Navy did not take part in the great victory of Trafalgar under the greatest fighting admiral of all time, Horatio Nelson. Napoleon and his ilk are, were, in no way different from Hitler and Stalin, or Bill and Hillary, and there is on difference amongst the character of their supporters, either.

Been on vacation for a few days, sorry to be so late in responding!

Stone enthusiast on the War with Napoleon here. That brilliant man was very dangerous. The Germans, Russians, and British paid a high price. Much, much to be learned. The birth of modern war.

82 posted on 06/25/2004 1:20:54 AM PDT by Iris7 ("Democracy" assumes every opinion is equally valid. No one believes this is true.)
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To: PhilDragoo; Professional Engineer; SAMWolf; snippy_about_it

I AM NOT saying that the wars with Napoleon were more important historically that the War of 1861-65. Napoleon corresponds with Leftism, Lincoln with Modernity.

Leftism has been with us always, lamentably. Modernity is modern, "The New Prometheus", as Mary Shelley put it in the title of her famous book, the book we usually call "Frankenstein".


83 posted on 06/25/2004 2:02:23 AM PDT by Iris7 ("Democracy" assumes every opinion is equally valid. No one believes this is true.)
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To: PhilDragoo

BTTT!!!!!!!


84 posted on 06/25/2004 3:11:32 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: Professional Engineer
Is the plane/engine 40 sized?

I am told that it's .4 (which they tell me is the same as 40).

85 posted on 06/25/2004 4:14:26 AM PDT by Samwise (I posted this tagline "because I could.")
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To: Professional Engineer

I'll make sure to show those to Hobbit Lass when she wakes up. I'll also forward them to Hubby, so he can see them.

BTW, the recognize the PVC frames. We have those hanging from our garage ceiling too. :^)


86 posted on 06/25/2004 4:18:31 AM PDT by Samwise (I posted this tagline "because I could.")
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To: PhilDragoo; Professional Engineer; SAMWolf; alfa6
OK, so maybe I shouldn't have shown this thread to Hubby. After being out of town for most of the week, he spent a great deal of time researching the RC. That'll teach me.

Oh well. I thought he would like it, but he really got excited about it. He's taking his laptop to the next club meeting so he can share the video with the guys (and one Hobbit lass). In case anyone is interested, here is some of the stuff he found about the B-52 RC.


The B52 has flown!!
Gordon has made three flights so far and is in the process of gaining CAA exemption.

Gordon's B52 project with 8 MW54 engines

MW54 Engine performance and statistics
The development of the FADEC for use with the MW54 provides the lightest, smallest, and the best system currently available, whether in manual start version or auto start version.
Bearings and balance.
The engine needs accurate balancing and the rotating parts are made to exceptionally close tolerances. To get the best out of an engine factory balancing is recommended. However, many have successfully made and flown their engines having assembled and balanced them.
Idle and spool up
The engine is exceptionally smooth, particularly if factory balanced. Spool up is super quick over 75,000 rpm. The idle setting can be 30-40,000 once past 75,000 the engine accelerates very quickly and smoothly.
Rev limit
The key upper limit on engine performance is the maximum revs. The limit is 160,000 rpm this represents 1.36 bar or 20 psi (now revised see below) case pressure. The shaft, compressor and bearings can stand higher rpm, but 160,000 rpm is the max stress for the wheel. One of the prototypes has been run to considerably higher speed than this to determine the safety margin that builders must not exceed.
Temperature limit
We suggest that the temp at max speed should not exceed 690C. (This means that at lower rpm the temperature will be 588C.)
Thrust
The original MW54 produced 12 lbs and the Mk 2 Kit is rated at this thrust and the test data set out on the Excel sheet is now a bit dated. Temperatures are now lower.
The MW54 Mk 3 kit is an evolution of the original engine and produces 14 lbs thrust at the same revs but higher case pressure.
The MW54 Super Sport represents the state of the art for these small engines and produces 18 lbs thrust at the same revs and slightly higher temperature but higher case pressure.

1) Kit with hand starter £1199 or ~ $2220
2) Kit with onboard starter and Eco ECU £1250 or ~ $2315
3) Kit with full Autostart £1399 or ~ $2590
4) Ready built with electric start and Eco ECU £1450 or ~ $2850
5) Ready built with full Autostart £1599 or ~ $2960


The most remarkable has got to be Gordon Nichols Boeing B52 to 117 th scale, powered by no less than eight Wren gas turbines, sponsored by Inwood Models, as well as the go ahead Wren company. This is an exciting £20,000+ (or ~ $37,000) project.

A jumbo-sized model airplane: Not content to build just your average little balsa-wood kit plane, Gordon Nichols and a few friends put together a 1/7th-scale model of a U.S. Air Force B-52 bomber, complete with eight turbine engines, for a total flying weight of about 300 pounds. And it flies just like any other radio-controlled model - although it's a whole lot louder, and needs a lot bigger place to land.
87 posted on 06/25/2004 8:43:55 PM PDT by Samwise (I posted this tagline "because I could.")
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To: Iris7
Been on vacation for a few days, sorry to be so late in responding!

Hope you enjoyed your vacation. Thanks for your insight.

88 posted on 06/25/2004 11:29:41 PM PDT by SAMWolf (Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality)
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To: Samwise

You should have known better than to show Hubby that B-52. ;-)


89 posted on 06/25/2004 11:31:45 PM PDT by SAMWolf (Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality)
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