On This Day In History
Birthdates which occurred on May 15:
1565 Henrick de Keyser architect/master builder of Amsterdam
1567 Claudio Giovanni Antonio Monteverdi Cremona Italy, composer (L'Orfeo)
1802 Isaac Ridgeway Trimble Major General (Confederate Army), died in 1888
1810 Jacob Thompson (Confederacy), died in 1885
1819 Thomas Leonidas Crittenden Major General (Union volunteers)
1830 Laurence Simmons Baker Brigadier General (Confederate Army), died in 1907
1845 Ilja [Elias] Metsjnikov USSR, zoologist/bacteriologist (Nobel 1908)
1856 Lyman Frank Baum Chittenango NY, children's book author (Wizard of Oz)
1860 Ellen Louise Axson Wilson 1st wife of Woodrow Wilson
1880 Otto Dibelius German theologist/bishop (Confessional Church)
1889 Bessie Hillman founder (Almalgamated Clothing Workers of America)
1890 Katherine Anne Porter US, novelist (Ship of Fools)
1891 Chief Nipo T Strongheart Yakima WA, US Indian actor (Pony Soldier)
1894 Jean Renoir French director (La Béte Humane) [or Sept 15]
1895 Charles Lamont San Fransisco CA, director (Abbott & Costello Go to Mars)
1902 Richard J Daley (Mayor-D-Chicago)
1905 Joseph Cotten Petersburg VA, actor (3rd Man, Airport 77, Hearse)
1909 James Mason England, actor (Lolita, Bloodline, Boys From Brazil)
1910 Robert F Wagner (Mayor-D-NYC, 1949-65)
1918 Eddy Arnold Henderson TN, country singer (Cattle Call, Anytime)
1921 Erroll Garner Pittsburgh PA, jazz pianist (Misty)
1922 Enrico Berlinguer Italian communist/secretary-general (CPI)
1923 Richard Avedon US, photographer (1957 ASMP award)
1926 Anthony Shaffer twin brother playwright (Sleuth)
1926 Peter Shaffer twin brother playwright (5 Finger Exercise, Equus)
1930 Jasper Johns Augusta GA, painter/sculptor (Green Target)
1936 Anna Maria Alberghetti Italy, actress/singer (Cinderfella)
1936 Donald [Anthony] Moffitt US, sci-fi author (Jupiter Theft)
1937 Trini Lopez Trinidad, singer/guitarist (If I Had a Hammer)
1947 Graham Goble Adelaide Australia, rock guitarist (Little River Band)
1949 Frank L Culbertson Jr Charleston SC, Commander USN/astronaut (STS-38)
1953 George Brett Wheeling WV, Kansas City Royal 3rd baseman (1980 American League MVP)
1953 Mike Oldfield England, composer (Tubular Bells)
1955 Lee Horsley Muleshoe TX, actor (Nero Wolfe, Matt Houston)
1967 John Smoltz Detroit MI, pitcher (Atlanta Braves, 1996 Cy Young)
1969 Emmitt Smith running back (Dallas Cowboys, 3-time NFL rushing leader)
1973 Victoria Davey Spelling Los Angeles CA, actress (Donna-Beverly Hills 90210)
1978 Krissy Taylor model
B-24..B-17 Comparison
A comparison between the B-24 Liberator and the B-17 Fortress is perhaps inevitable. The Liberator was slightly faster than the Fort, carried a heavier bombload and could carry it farther and higher than the Fort. It was slightly more maneuverable than the Fort, and was much more adaptable to other missions. On the debit side, the Liberator was harder to fly, less stable, and much more difficult to hold in the tight bomber formations that were mandatory in the European theatre of operations. The Liberator was not capable of absorbing nearly the same amount of battle damage that the Fortress could handle. Any sort of solid hit on the wing of a Liberator was generally fatal, the high-aspect ratio Davis wing often collapsing and folding up when hit. In comparison to the B-17, there are relatively few photographs of Liberators returning home with half their wings shot away or with major sections of their tails missing. The Liberator was not very crashworthy, a 'wheels up' landing generally causing the fuselage to split into two or three pieces, resulting in a complete writeoff. In contrast, a Fortress which had undergone a 'wheels-up' landing could often be quickly repaired and returned to service. When ditching at sea, the Liberator's lightly-built bomb bay doors would often immediately collapse upon impact, the interior of the aircraft quickly filling up with water, causing the aircraft to sink rapidly. In spite of the Liberator's defects, Eighth Air Force records show that B-17 operational losses were 15.2 percent as compared with 13.3 percent for the B-24,which meant that a crew had statistically a better chance of surviving the war in a Liberator than in a Fortress.
From a B-24 web forum:
If you look at a B-17,B-29 the a B-24, one will notice the spacing in the planes rivets.
B-17&29 has close rivet patterns.....while the 24's had large spaces between .
The B-24 flexed excessivley due to this...especially the tail section in flight.
The 24 having a smaller lift profile in its wing area needed to fly with its tail stepped higher than the fuselage in flight....this reduced fuel consumption dramatically.
A 24 flying in stepped format ....upon losing step profile would drop back quickly in flight speed......spacing intervals were critical.
My grandfather, "gramps," said the mission was hell. The flight was very long, and they were off course. When they did correct the course - because of uncalculated cross winds - the German Wurzburg radars had vectored aircraft aginst the bomb group.
Gramps knew the planes would be sent up against them, because they flight commander had ordered the aircraft to a higher altitude to combat the heavy crosswinds to save fuel for the return trip back to N. Africa.
Once the fighter planes were cleared, the Liberators then dropped to an altitude of about 150 feet. They ran square into an anti aircraft artillery train which began ripping planes out of the sky.
Gramps' plane lost #1 engines on the way in. Both waist gunners wewre killed by anti aircraft fir, and the tail gunner was critically wounded dying before the mission was completed - no one could get to the man, because the floor boards to the aircraft aft of the wing were severely damaged, and deemed unsafe to walk over.
Weapons were dropped on target, and then the crew had to fight a dying aircraft all the way back to the Med, and attempt the crossing. All weapons were discarded along with any unneeded weight.
Engine #3 failed on the return trip, and my grandfather had to make a determination whether to ditch the aircraft. The crew made the determination that the plane would NOT survive a water ditch, so gramps decided they would try to ride it out and hope for the best.
When they reached N. Africa, and made the approach, landing gear would not deploy. Manual attempt was tried, but the undercarriage was so heavily damaged from flak that it was no use.
Ball turret could not be retracted back into the fuselage, and the gunner had to crawl out of the turret, and climb through the damaged fuselage to egress from his position.
Gear up, nose slightly elevated, the plane ground to a halt after breaking in half just aft of the bomb bay.
My grandfather was a strong man, and a good pilot. After VE day he wanted a transfer to the Pacific theater, but his request was denied, and the B-24 he had inherited to fly from Italy into Germany was used as a cargo plane. He died of Cancer in the early 1980's.
SS
I found your post that included this text: “Four aircraft were lost to flak, one of them piloted by 21-year-old 2d Lt. Lloyd H. Hughes....”
Lloyd Herbert Hughes was my uncle. He was just over 22 years old when he died, not 21. Here is an image of his grave marker showing that he was born JUL 12 1921 and he died on AUG 1 1943:
www.rajordan.com/pete/images/19500412-01.jpg
My memorial web site on him is here:
www.rajordan.com/pete