The FReeper Foxhole Remembers Submarine Operations in the Aleutians (1942-1944) - Dec. 9th, 2003

www.chinfo.navy.mil ^ | Edward C. Whitman

[colorado tanker]

Interesting thread. I hadn't known about the ancient submarine fleet up there. Alaska is one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen, but I sure wouldn't want to have to fight in the winter up there.

I know the plan was to take Attu and Kiska to provide a diversion for the attack on Midway, but I still shake my head over that strategy. Two islands of no strategic or economic importance whatsoever. I'm half surprised Nimitz didn't tell them, "you want them that bad, keep 'em." And what commander would would ever take the bait and leave Midway and the Hawaiian Islands lightly defended to go rescue Attu and Kiska??? Whoever dreamed that plan up had gotten into the Sake cabinet.

[SAMWolf]

I'm half surprised Nimitz didn't tell them, "you want them that bad, keep 'em."

I have to agree with you on that one. I don't know who really got the worst of "Tying up enemy forces" us or the Japanese, both sides needed everything they could get into the main areas of combat. Those carriers might have made a difference in the Battle of Midway, even though they weren't top line fleet carriers.

[Trteamer]

Thank you so much, all of you.

I came here to the FReeper Foxhole because I have a deep appreciation of all Veterans who have served my country. My Father In Law, God bless his soul, was left for dead on the battlefield in Italy during WWII. He crawled over a mile with a back full of shrapnel and was found alive near a field hospital. They patched him up and sent him home. He never ever talked about the war. My uncle is in his 80's, and was a navigator on one of the bombers that leveled the famous monestary in Italy also during WWII (I can't remember the name of the monestary, but it was famous). I am not a Veteran, but I share the same values. I will gladly fight for and serve my country any way I can.

FReepers are the best of the best in my book. I love Freeping the leftists and will do so for the rest of my days. Bring it on leftists, you will have a handfull the next time I FReep.

The one thing I will always remember from my buddy Dave's funeral is how awesome that flag looked draped over his coffin. God that flag is beautiful.

All the Best.

[snippy_about_it]

Thank you so much, all of you.

Your very welcome, we are happy you felt comfortable with the Foxhole enough to share with us.

[Soaring Feather]

You're welcome bump.

[SAMWolf]

I thank your Father-in-Law for his service.

The Monestary was at Cassino. We're planning a thread on the Battle and one on the bombing.

Thanks for coming to the Foxhole and sharing, that's one of the reasons we're here. Everyone here shares your appreciation of our veterans. We try to tell some of their stories and give some background to places and battles that may only be a "name" to some.

You're right about the Flag draped on a coffin, it's both a sad and yet beautiful sight at the same time. That and the presentation of the Folded Flag alwyas gets my eyes misted up.

[Mr. Silverback]

God that flag is beautiful.

Isn't it? It could be puke green and flaming magenta, and it would still symbolize beautiful ideas, but that arrangement of red, white and blue really is one of the most beautiful sights around.

[Prov3456]

Our sympathies to you on the loss of your friend. May he rest in peace.

[Diver Dave]

***God that flag is beautiful. ***

At our city's Veteran's Day ceremony, The Flag was folded by a squad of Sea Cadets. With each fold, the narrator told the meaning of each fold until The Flag was completely folded and honors rendered to it.

I just did a google search for the list and among others, is the following from Snoops.com suggesting an 'Urban Legend.'

Legend or not, It is indeed a beautiful sight to behold.

***

***


An American flag is traditionally folded thirteen times because each of the folds has a special meaning.
Status: False.

Example: [Collected on the Internet, 2001]


"WHY THE AMERICAN FLAG IS FOLDED 13 TIMES"
Have you ever wondered why the Flag of the United States of America is folded 13 times when it is lowered or when it is folded and handed to the next of kin at the burial of a veteran?

Here is the meaning of each of those folds and what it means:

The first fold of our Flag is a symbol of life.

The second fold is a symbol of our belief in eternal life.

The third fold is made in honor and remembrance of the veterans departing our ranks who gave a portion of their lives for the defense of our country to attain peace throughout the world.

The fourth fold represents our weaker nature, for as American citizens trusting, it is to Him we turn in times of peace as well as in time of war for His divine guidance.

The fifth fold is a tribute to our country, for in the words of Stephen Decatur, "Our Country, in dealing with other countries may she always be right; but it is still our country, right or wrong."

The sixth fold is for where our hearts lie. It is with our heart that we pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

The seventh fold is a tribute to our Armed Forces, for it is through the Armed Forces that we protect our country and our flag against all her enemies, whether they be found within or without the boundaries of our Republic.

The eighth fold is a tribute to the one who entered into the valley of the shadow of death, that we might see the light of day, and to honor mother, for whom it flies on Mother's Day.

The ninth fold is a tribute to womanhood; for it has been through their faith, their love, loyalty and devotion that the character of the men and women who have made this country great has been molded.

The tenth fold is a tribute to the father, for he, too, has given his sons and daughters for the defense of our country since they were first born.

The eleventh fold, in the eyes of a Hebrew citizen represents the lower portion of the seal of King David and King Solomon, and glorifies in their eyes, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

The twelfth fold, in the eyes of a Christian citizen, represents an emblem of eternity and glorifies, in their eyes, God the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit.

The thirteenth fold: When the Flag is completely folded, the stars are uppermost reminding us of our Nation's motto, "In God We Trust." After the Flag is completely folded and tucked in, it takes on the appearance of a cocked hat, ever reminding us of the soldiers who served under General George Washington, and the Sailors and Marines who served under Captain John Paul Jones, who were followed by their comrades and shipmates in the Armed Forces of the United States, preserving for us the rights, privileges, and freedoms we enjoy today.

The next time you see a Flag ceremony honoring someone that has served our country, either in the Armed Forces or in our civilian services such as the Police Force or Fire Department, keep in mind all the important reasons behind each and every movement. They have paid the ultimate sacrifice for all of us by honoring our Flag and our Country.




Origins: This
item about the meanings of the folds in a flag reminds me of a joke told by deadpan comedian Steven Wright: "Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?" As often happens, a "meaning" has been grafted onto some facet of everyday life, to the point that the symbolic, after the fact meaning has been confused with the original purpose.

Traditional flag etiquette prescribes that before an American flag is stored or presented, its handlers should twice fold it in half lengthwise; then (from the end opposite the blue field) make a triangular fold, continuing to fold it in triangles until the other end is reached. This makes a triangular "pillow" of the flag with only the blue starred field showing on the outside, and it takes thirteen folds to produce: two lengthwise folds and eleven triangular ones.

The American flag isn't folded in this manner because the thirteen folds correspond to the original thirteen states, or because the folding produces a shape resembling a cocked hat, or because each of the folds has a special symbolic meaning. The flag is folded this way simply because it provides a dignified ceremonial touch that distinguishes folding a flag from folding an ordinary object such as a bedsheet, and because it results a visually pleasing, easy-to-handle shape. That this process requires thirteen folds is coincidental, not the product of design.

An even more elaborate flag folding ceremony has since been devised for special occasions such as Memorial Day and Veterans Day, one which incorporates the association of particular symbolic meanings with each fold of the flag. These associations are "real" in the sense that they mean something to the people who participate in the ceremony, but they are not the reason why a flag is folded in the traditional thirteen-step manner. As was the case with the candy cane, an invented (religious) symbolism has become so widespread that it is now often mistakenly assumed to have been an integral part of the origins of the item it is associated with.

[SAMWolf]

Thanks DD. I agree, Urban Legend or not the reasons are still valid and if the meanings were added as an afterthought it doesn't diminish them at all.

This is the first time I've seen the list of meanings and I'm going to remember them when I see the flag folded.

[chgomac]

So sorry to hear of your loss. Thoughts and prayers reach out to you.