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The FReeper Foxhole Remembers the 31st RCT at the Chosin Reservoir (Nov. 1950)- Nov. 27th, 2003
Army History Foundation ^ | Matthew J. Seelinger, AHF Research Historian

Posted on 11/27/2003 12:01:14 AM PST by SAMWolf



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.


...................................................................................... ...........................................

U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues

Where Duty, Honor and Country
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The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans.

In the FReeper Foxhole, Veterans or their family members should feel free to address their specific circumstances or whatever issues concern them in an atmosphere of peace, understanding, brotherhood and support.

The FReeper Foxhole hopes to share with it's readers an open forum where we can learn about and discuss military history, military news and other topics of concern or interest to our readers be they Veteran's, Current Duty or anyone interested in what we have to offer.

If the Foxhole makes someone appreciate, even a little, what others have sacrificed for us, then it has accomplished one of it's missions.

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Nightmare at the Chosin Reservoir
Thanksgiving, 1950


When most people think of the Chosin Reservoir, they think about the Marines and Chesty Puller, but there was another unit trapped at the Chosin, the 31st Regimental Combat Team of the US Army 7th Infantry Division, better know as Task Force MaClean. About 3000 American soldiers came. Over 1,000 stayed forever. They fought and died on a 10-mile stretch of frozen, snow-covered dirt road on the east side of the Chosin Reservoir.

This is their story.




In late November 1950, a conclusion to the Korean War appeared to be close at hand. U.S., Republic of Korea (ROK), and various U.N. units had advanced deep into North Korea in an attempt to destroy any remaining North Korean People’s Army (NKPA) units and reunite Korea under one government. Some units had even reached the Yalu River, which separated Korea from Communist China.

But just as U.N. forces launched what was hoped to be the final offensive, hundreds of thousands of Communist Chinese soldiers poured into Korea, overwhelming the U.N. troops and completely changing the nature of the war. Fighting in extreme cold and over rugged terrain, the Americans and their allies were forced to retreat south down the Korean peninsula, suffering heavy casualties along the way.


CCF troops prepare to advance and assault the 31st RCT
They would virtually destroy 1st Btn, 32nd Infantry Regiment


For one U.S. Army unit, the intervention of Chinese Communist Forces (CCF) resulted in absolute disaster. The 31st Regimental Combat Team, better known as Task Force MacLean (later known as Task Force Faith), comprised of elements of the 7th Infantry Division, was virtually annihilated east of the Chosin Reservoir. The experiences of the American soldiers who fought and died in the frigid cold of the Chosin area proved to be some of the most harrowing and tragic in the history of the U.S. Army.

In late November 1950, Task Force MacLean and the rest of the 7th Infantry Division were part of the U.S. Army’s X Corps, under the command of MG Edward M. Almond. X Corps had been steadily advancing up the eastern side of the Korean peninsula and was pressing on towards the Yalu.

On 24 November, the Eighth Army, under the command of LTG Walton H. Walker, which had been advancing north along the western side of Korea, went on the offensive. GEN Douglas MacArthur, commander of all U.N. forces in Korea, hoped this offensive would finally end the war, hopefully by Christmas. Yet, MacArthur and many on his staff were soon to make one of the worst military intelligence blunders in U.S. Army history. Ignoring reports of contact with CCF troops, MacArthur ordered the Eighth Army and X Corps to push on to the Yalu.


Colonels MacClean and Faith


On the night of 25 November, one day after Eighth Army began its offensive, the CCF struck Eighth Army with massive numbers of troops. Thousands of Chinese soldiers, armed with burp guns and grenades, with bugles blaring, swarmed the American positions. Several American units were overrun and destroyed. The CCF onslaught took MacArthur and the U.N. forces completely by surprise and almost instantly changed the tide of the war. Soon, Eighth Army was in full headlong retreat southward.

Despite the CCF attack, the X Corps offensive scheduled for 27 November proceeded according to plan. The offensive called for the corps to strike west towards Mupyong, northeast of Kunu in the CCF rear, cut the Chinese supply lines, and possibly envelop the CCF in front of Eighth Army. The attack would be spearheaded by the 1st Marine Division, under the command of MG O.P. Smith, which would advance up the west side of the Chosin Reservoir, with the 7th Infantry Division (led by Task Force MacLean) along the east side of Chosin and the 3rd Infantry Division guarding the Marines’ flanks.


CCF 79th or 80th Division troops in assault on 1st Btn 32nd Infantry Regiment


Task Force MacLean, under the command of COL Allan D. “Mac” MacLean, commander of the 31st Infantry Regiment, had been formed in mid-November to relieve elements of the 1st Marine Division east of the Chosin Reservoir. MacLean, a 1930 graduate of West Point, had served as a staff officer in the European Theater during World War II. After the war, he commanded the 32nd Infantry in Japan. Later assigned to Eighth Army’s G-3 section, MacLean served as Walker’s personal “eyes and ears” during the early days of the Korean War. In early November1950, he eagerly accepted command of the 31st Infantry, a unit he had served with in the Philippines early in his career.

Task Force MacLean consisted of the following units: the 2nd and 3rd Battalions, 31st Infantry (2/31 and 3/31); the 31st Tank Company; the 1st Battalion, 32nd Infantry (1/32), under the command of LTC Don C. Faith; the 57th Field Artillery Battalion, equipped with 105mm howitzers; and a platoon of eight antiaircraft vehicles (M19s with dual 40mm cannon and M16 quad-.50 halftracks) from D Battery, 15th Antiaircraft Artillery (Automatic Weapons) Battalion. In all, Task Force MacLean numbered about 3,200 men, including 700 ROK soldiers.



On 25 and 26 November, the lead elements of Task Force MacLean, Faith’s 1/32 Infantry, relieved the 5th Marines, which redeployed to join the rest of the 1st Marine Division along the west side of Chosin. However, due to delays with the rest of the task force’s redeployment, the 1/32, which occupied the 5th Marines forwardmost positions, stood alone without artillery support for a full day.

Don Faith, commander of the 1/32 Infantry, was considered one of the most promising officers in the Army. The son of a retired brigadier general, he had been handpicked from the Officer Candidate School at Fort Benning by then MG Matthew B. Ridgway to serve as his aide-de-camp. He served with Ridgway throughout Europe and jumped with the 82nd Airborne Division on D-Day. In battle, Faith was considered a virtual clone of Ridgway: intense, fearless, aggressive, and unforgiving of error or caution.



Most of the remaining units that comprised Task Force MacLean arrived on the east side of Chosin on 27 November. MacLean was among the first to arrive and immediately jeeped forward to confer with Faith. He confirmed with Faith that the task force would attack north the following day with whatever forces were on hand and that the 1/32 would spearhead the attack.

MacLean positioned forces north to south in their approximate order of arrival: 1/32 Infantry; MacLean’s forward command post (CP); the 31st Heavy Mortar Company; the 3/31 Infantry; A and B Batteries of the 57th FAB; the 57th FAB CP and the eight A/A vehicles; and finally, the 31st Infantry’s headquarters, located in a schoolhouse in the village of Hudong, and the twenty-two tanks of the 31st Tank Company. C Battery, 57th FAB, and the 2/31 Infantry were lagging behind and had not yet left the Pungsan area.

Late in the day MacLean ordered the 31st’s Intelligence and Reconnaissance Platoon to scout enemy positions. The platoon was ambushed in the hills around Chosin by CCF troops and every soldier was either killed or captured.


The entire area of the battle, photographed 11/1/50


That night, MacLean laid out his final plans for the next day’s attack with the 7th ID assistant division commander, BG Hank Hodes. He then went forward to finalize them with Faith.

While MacLean and Faith remained confident, Task Force MacLean already faced serious problems. In addition to the disappearance of the I&R Platoon, communications between the scattered units were poor at best. There was no time to lay landlines and radio communications were virtually nonexistent. Furthermore, the task force was not in radio contact with the 7th ID HQ at Pungsan or the Marines in Hagaru-ri. The scattered units of Task Force MacLean were dangerously isolated, not only from the rest of the 7th ID and the Marines, but also from each other.

Also, unbeknownst to the Marines and Task Force MacLean, massive numbers of CCF troops were preparing to attack the dispersed units of X Corps on the night of the 27th. Three CCF divisions (59th, 79th, and 89th) were to hit the Marines at Yudam-ni and Hagaru-ri, along with the 7th Infantry, 3rd Infantry Division, and farther south. One division (80th) would attack Task Force MacLean.

On 27 November, the X Corps offensive began with the 5th and 7th Marines attacking from Yudam-ni along the west side of Chosin. In light of the rugged terrain, bitterly cold weather, logistical problems, and the situation facing Eighth Army, the X Corps offensive, in the words of one historian, “ranks as the most ill-advised and unfortunate operation of the Korean War.” The Marines, reluctant to carry out the attack in the first place, advanced only 1,500 yards before they met stiff CCF resistance and suffered heavy casualties.



Later after dark, in zero-degree weather, the CCF divisions struck. Two divisions hit the 5th and 7th Marines frontally while a third cut the road between Yudam-ni and Hagaru-ri. Elements of another division also struck the 7th Infantry. The situation quickly became desperate for the American forces around Chosin.

East of the Chosin Reservoir, the situation was just as chaotic. During the early evening hours, the CCF 80th Division encircled the unsuspecting units of Task Force MacLean. At about 2200, the division attacked out of the darkness, with CCF soldiers blowing bugles and screaming wildly. The isolated units, cut off from each other, fought for their lives.

Faith’s 1/32 Infantry was hit first along the noth side of its perimeter. Marine CPT Edward P. Stamford, a forward air controller assigned to the task force, took command of A Company after its commander was killed and also called in Marine air strikes. While Marine aircraft and the troops of the 1/32 inflicted heavy casualties on the CCF troops, the battalion suffered over one hundred casualties.


Elements of the CCF 9th Army are part of the 100,000 Foot Infantry Moving Towards Chosin


Several miles south, the situation was similar. The CCF struck the 3/31 Infantry and two batteries of the 57th FAB, overrunning much of their perimeter. Most of the senior officers were killed or wounded. The battle raged on through the night, with the CCF finally withdrawing at dawn for fear of American air attacks. Like the 1/32, the 3/31 and 57th FAB suffered heavy casualties and one of the A/A vehicles was destroyed. Furthermore, the 31st’s medical company was wiped out. Back at the 31st’s rear CP in Hudong, BG Hodes heard heavy gunfire to the north and immediately ascertained something was wrong. He quickly ordered CPT Robert E. Drake to take two platoons of the 31st Tank Company forward to the 3/31 and 1/32 perimeters. Drake’s rescue column, however, soon ran into trouble. Some tanks skidded out of control on the icy road, while others became hopelessly stuck in mud. The column was then attacked by CCF troops with captured American bazookas. Two tanks were knocked out and a wild fight ensued as Chinese swarmed the tanks and attempted to open the hatches. Two more tanks become mired and had to be abandoned. Drake ordered his remaining twelve tanks back to Hudong. Once the tanks returned, Hodes quickly realized Task Force MacLean was in serious trouble. He borrowed one of the tanks and rode to Hagaru-ri to get help.



TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: 31strct; 7thinfantry; chosinreservoir; freeperfoxhole; korea; taskforcefaith; taskforcemaclean; veterans
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To: Colonel_Flagg; snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; PhilDragoo
Zombie turkeys, desecrated vegetables, gooey gravy, and cranberry ammo.
THat's the Thanksgiving I remember most, in uniform.
Our captain at the time looked at the turkey, looked at me, and said, "I don'tknow about you, but gimme the MRE."
141 posted on 11/27/2003 7:24:54 PM PST by Darksheare (Even as we speak, my 100,000 killer wombat army marches forth)
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To: snippy_about_it
LOL ..

See my new tagline. ;)

142 posted on 11/27/2003 7:24:55 PM PST by Colonel_Flagg ("I keep myself in a constant state of utter confusion." - Self)
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To: Darksheare
"I don'tknow about you, but gimme the MRE."

Now that's desperate!

143 posted on 11/27/2003 7:27:15 PM PST by SAMWolf (Happy ThanksGiving from The Freeper Foxhole)
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To: PhilDragoo
China..still at war with the U.S.

China Reform Monitor No. 205, May 19, 1999
American Foreign Policy Council, Washington, D.C.

According to the FBI, Chinese hackers have attacked U.S. Government computer information systems, including the White House and Pentagon, in response to the bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, reports Bill Gertz in the Washington Times. The FBI report, "China Cyber Activities," states, "Much of this [attack] activity traces back to Chinese addresses, and much of the reporting of this activity comes from official Chinese news sources."

The Pentagon and CIA have previously warned of such "asymmetrical warfare" incidents. According to Chinese military doctrinal writings, the People's Liberation Army is developing information-warfare capabilities designed to cripple communications systems and high-technology weapons. The FBI report said targets of the post-May 7 Chinese cyber-attacks have included the Departments of Interior, Energy and State, the U.S. Embassy in China and the White House." Pentagon computer systems were disrupted last week by mass e-mailings that are believed to have originated in China. On May 11, the official White House web site was shut down after an attempt was made to break into the system's operating page. According to the official China Daily newspaper, hackers broke into the official web site of the U.S. Embassy in Beijing and inserted the slogan "Down with the barbarians."

The FBI report did not say whether the Chinese government was behind the attacks. However, Stephen Bryen, a former Pentagon official, says the Chinese government maintains tight control over Internet service providers. It is unlikely cyber attacks could be launched by individuals without the approval of the government. Bryen said these incidents of Chinese electronic warfare indicate "the Chinese are just practicing," because the origin was not disguised. In more sophisticated attacks, it is difficult to detect the source.

CIA warns of Chinese cyber-attacks on U.S.

By Eric Lichtblau
Los Angeles Times
Published April 25, 2002

WASHINGTON -- U.S. intelligence officials believe the Chinese military is working to launch wide-scale cyber-attacks on American and Taiwanese computer networks, including Internet-linked military systems considered vulnerable to sabotage, according to a classified CIA report.

Moreover, U.S. authorities are bracing for a possible wave of hacking attacks by Chinese students against the United States in coming weeks, according to the analysis. The confidential alert, which was reviewed by The Times, was sent to intelligence officials a week ago.

Although U.S. officials have voiced concerns about individual hackers in China who have defaced federal and private Web sites, the United States has resisted publicly linking the Chinese government to those attacks or to broader cyber-style warfare.

The new CIA report, however, makes clear that U.S. intelligence analysts have become increasingly concerned that authorities in Beijing are actively planning to damage and disrupt U.S. computer systems through the use of Internet hacking and computer viruses.

Although the assessment concludes that China has not yet acquired the technical sophistication to do broad damage to U.S. and Taiwanese systems, it maintains that this is the "intended goal" of the People's Liberation Army in China. "The mission of Chinese special forces includes physical sabotage" of vulnerable systems, the report says--which some analysts said is driven by China's hostility toward Taiwan.

The Chinese Embassy in Washington insisted Wednesday, however, that Beijing is only conducting computer research that is strictly defensive in nature.

"It is not the Chinese government's policy to disrupt the computer system of any other country," said Larry Wu, an official in the embassy's science and technology section.

"We do research on the security of computers, of course--self-defense to understand how a hacker can get into our computer systems so we can defend it," he said. "But China has never assumed an offensive stance with regards to computer technology."

But several specialists in Chinese security and military affairs said the CIA's conclusions jibe with their own observations about China's research into offensive-minded cyber-tools.

"We should be very worried about this issue," said James Mulvenon, a China analyst at the Rand Corp. think tank who has done extensive studies into Chinese computer capabilities.

Taiwan, which China regards as a renegade province, appears to be the driving force behind the Chinese interest in hacking and viruses, Mulvenon said. Under one scenario, if China were to make good on its long-standing threat to invade Taiwan, the Chinese military could then seek to deploy widespread computer disruptions against American and Taiwanese military systems to slow any effort by U.S. forces to intervene in Taiwan's defense, he said.

The issue threatens to inflame what are invariably tense relations between the United States and the Communist regime in China, relations already frayed by a volley of charges and counter charges during the last several years over alleged nuclear, military and political espionage.

Relations hit a low point last year after a U.S. spy plane collided with a Chinese jet fighter, triggering an international standoff over the return of the plane's 24 Navy crewmen. China detained the crew members for 11 days and returned the disassembled plane months later.

Recent months have seen a warming in relations as the Bush administration secured China's cooperation in the war on terrorism. But China has become upset by what it sees as the White House's increasingly favorable overtures toward Taiwan.

The CIA's assessment discusses Taiwan and the United States, revealing that U.S. intelligence officials believe both are targets of the Chinese military.

"The People's Liberation Army does not yet have the capability to carry out its intended goal of disrupting Taiwanese military and civilian infrastructures or U.S. military logistics using computer virus attacks," said the CIA's report, which was included in a broader national security assessment that authorities distributed to intelligence officials.

"China's virus attack capabilities are similar to those of sophisticated hackers and are limited to temporary disruption of sectors that use the Internet," the CIA review said. "A Chinese virus attack is capable of reaching e-mail communications, lap tops brought into China, and U.S. Internet-based military computers."

A U.S. intelligence official who was briefed on the issue but asked not to be identified said analysts believe that, although the most sensitive U.S. military databases are secure from hackers and viruses, Internet-based military systems that are used for communications with bases around the world and with outside military vendors could be vulnerable.

"These aren't the keys to the kingdom we're talking about," the official said. "There's no danger that the Chinese are going to hack into our nuclear launch codes, but there is the danger they could gather useful intelligence from penetrating some of the less sensitive networks that the Department of Defense utilizes all over the world."

Recent U.S. intelligence indicates, the official said, "that the Chinese government is actively and aggressively working on their cyber-war capability. They have a lot of people and a lot of brainpower, and they're smart enough to appreciate that a significant aspect of any future armed conflict is going to be cyber in nature."

Another government official who asked not to be identified cautioned, however, that the immediate threat posed by Chinese computer disruptions is fairly limited.

"This is something we're certainly concerned about. But in terms of their being able to disrupt Taiwan or U.S. military and civilian infrastructure, they can't do it yet. That's the story."

The concept of nations launching cyber-attacks against their enemies is a relatively new phenomenon, but it is drawing rising concern from U.S. authorities as they assess vulnerability in the national computer infrastructure. In an effort to beef up security, budget planners are projecting an increase of more than 50% next year in overall computer security, bringing the total to more than $4 billion.

The CIA report does not reveal how intelligence analysts arrived at their conclusions, and Jonathan Pollack, chairman of the strategic research department at the Naval War College, cautioned that there are still many unanswered questions about China's plans.

"China is still an issue that worries Americans deeply, and sometimes the intelligence community gets a head of steam on these things and can go off on tangents that may not be substantiated," he said.

Last year, the spy plane confrontation triggered an avalanche of about 1,200 attacks against U.S. government and commercial Web sites that were disrupted or defaced. Many of the attacks appeared to have been generated by students in China, with private hackers leaving patriotic pro-China messages or vowing revenge for the death of a Chinese pilot in the plane collision. Several hundred attacks on Chinese Web sites were blamed on American hackers, although some U.S. technology experts discounted that explanation.

The CIA assessment said China's "nonstate hacking community continues to pose the most immediate threat to U.S. computer networks."

It went on to warn that hackers in China "appear to be organizing for cyber-attacks again this spring, particularly during student breaks early next month and around the anniversary of the EP-3 [surveillance plane] incident."

The anniversary of the EP-3 collision passed uneventfully this month. But private security groups say they too have picked up on possible Chinese-based attacks in coming weeks--tied to the plane episode as well as China's national youth day on May 4 and the May 8 anniversary of the U.S.'s accidental bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade in 1999.

"We're warning our people about it and making sure everyone has their Web sites updated with the proper patches" to guard against denial-of-service attacks and other hacking, said Michael Cheek, director of intelligence for iDefense, a security intelligence service that has government and corporate clients around the world.

The U.S. intelligence official said that analysts suspect last year's hackings had the "tacit blessing," and even perhaps the active involvement, of the Chinese government.

Indeed, a report due out next month from Mulvenon and the Rand Corp., which does research for the U.S. government, will allege that the Chinese government was directly involved in at least one round of hack attacks.

After a spate of attacks against Web sites in the United States, Australia, Canada and England maintained by the Falun Gong religious movement--which China considers an "evil cult"--Mulvenon said his investigation unearthed evidence showing that at least one U.S. attack originated with the Chinese Ministry of Public Security.

"It's very clear to us that this was the ministry's doing, and it was a deliberate attempt to smear Falun Gong," he said.

144 posted on 11/27/2003 7:28:53 PM PST by Light Speed
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To: SAMWolf
We were.
Somehow they'd managed to desecrate the food.
(However, it was made up to us later.)
The Cap looked about ready to pull a "Slim Picken's" from Dr. Strangelove.
145 posted on 11/27/2003 7:32:26 PM PST by Darksheare (Even as we speak, my 100,000 killer wombat army marches forth)
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To: Colonel_Flagg
LOL. One more before bedtime.

There's only one flaw in that theory.

146 posted on 11/27/2003 7:36:42 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Light Speed
The Falun Gong have a compound near me, and Chinese Secret police/Spies were caught on campus.
(Deerpark, NY.)
The local police chief ran up and apologized profusely to the Chinese criminals harrassing teh Falun Gong, and gave them free passage out of Deerpark.
Later it was rumored that the FBI were interested in the Chinese officials spying on teh Falun Gong, and were upset with the Deerpark Police chief for letting them go.
The Falun Gong were notably upset, since the chief said he'd cite THEM for unlawful detainment for blocking teh 'diplomatic' vehicle ostensibly on a tour of the area INSIDE the compound on private property.
(The 'official' business stated by the Government thugs from China was that they were 'sight seeing'... manuy miles form their embassy in NYC.)
147 posted on 11/27/2003 7:37:35 PM PST by Darksheare (Even as we speak, my 100,000 killer wombat army marches forth)
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To: Darksheare
Yep! LOL.
148 posted on 11/27/2003 7:37:45 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
"I was a Showgirl for six weeks!"
149 posted on 11/27/2003 7:39:28 PM PST by Darksheare (Even as we speak, my 100,000 killer wombat army marches forth)
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To: Light Speed
Hi Light Speed.

The Chinese are our enemy, no matter how much any administrations want to deny it.
150 posted on 11/27/2003 7:40:35 PM PST by SAMWolf (Happy ThanksGiving from The Freeper Foxhole)
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To: Darksheare
LOL. Not you too??
151 posted on 11/27/2003 7:41:02 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: SAMWolf
Thanks! I saved it for today as I thought it was a very special quote.
152 posted on 11/27/2003 8:00:54 PM PST by RJayneJ
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To: Darksheare; SAMWolf
D.S.,..your comments about Deerpark N.Y.,..how does that spin today when a China national was rescued by media run..in America doing social work..with Liberal's dancing all about...only to be disclosed later that she was a spy for the Chi Coms and was sending chip technology back to China.[* do not have her name on hand but saw the news run on CNN]

Some ponder that her **Crisis back in China was arranged for her to smoothly integrate into the *Capitalist Running Dogs Society.

It would'nt suprise me that China has players all over the game board..people are'nt who they sem to be.

Wen Ho Lee Walks

According to American prosecutors, Wen Ho Lee was the greatest nuclear spy since Klaus Fuchs stole the plans for the first atomic bomb and passed them on to Stalin. They persuaded federal Judge James Parker to deny the Chinese American bail pending trial, and pushed him into imposing nine months' imprisonment under strict, cruel conditions. That was supposed to prevent Lee, accused of spying for China, from leaking more secrets — as if any real spy under the spotlight would further compromise himself or his contacts in such a way. Then suddenly, Lee walks free under a plea bargain of the kind usually involving petty drug dealers. The prosecutors dropped 58 charges, pressing only one of mishandling classified information.

My comment:Its strange ..China gets caught spying..and Economic/corporate powers run to do more business with the Devious Dragon...with the blessing of Government.


153 posted on 11/27/2003 8:56:21 PM PST by Light Speed
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To: SAMWolf
China's J-10 All Weather Interceptor/Attack


This thing is a splice F-16 and EuroTyphoon airframe..and it does have capability.

Aircraft thrust to weight ratio's are similar now in several airforces..allong with canard and vector nozzle assist for snappy turning and ground attack.
What truly sets the best apart from the average is the multiplexing radar suites and over the horizon targeting computers.

China is catching up quickly in ability...they are able to mimic..the concern is that in time..they will have tooling and production capabilty to start producing airframes like J-10..then sell them to who ever.

Rumor is that they are learning *Hypervelocity munitions.
This is an arena that U.S.,Russia and Israel have had to themselves..and is..a great equalizer when tactical projection is weighed.

Soon..toys will not be their primary focus for export.

154 posted on 11/27/2003 9:19:13 PM PST by Light Speed
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To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it; Darksheare; Colonel_Flagg; Light Speed

Play it, SAM.

Re ChiComs:

When their ace pilot Wen No Brain flew his FUBAR-5 through the number one Veg-O-Matic of our EP-3C, and they held the crew. . . .

I, like all good melicans, emailed the Chinese Embassy, not being able to actually target it with PGMs.

I then received numerous (numerous) pings from various "technical institutes" in China, Korea, and elsewhere in Asia.

China has two signals intelligence installations on Cuba, one of which spoofed NYC air traffic control into thinking it was U.S. military.

During the coming year we expect Hitlery and her beard to engineer an event in CONUS with or without an attack on POTUS.

We have no hard intel, hence the alert level remains puce, rather than being upped to chartreuse.

We will deal with the Mongols tomorrow.

Tonight we raise our tankards to the Foxhole:


155 posted on 11/27/2003 9:27:39 PM PST by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: PhilDragoo; Light Speed
We seem to have a habit of trusting our enemies as they work to destroy us. China is the latest example. Only this time our enemies are getting help from our political parties who refuse to see China as a threat.
156 posted on 11/27/2003 11:00:32 PM PST by SAMWolf (Happy ThanksGiving from The Freeper Foxhole)
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To: Darksheare
Me, I'm waiting for the pumpkin pie to become available. If it doesn't become available for raiding soon, I'll just have to ninja it out of sight stealthily....

I hope you were nice and left some of that pie for the others.
Ugh...I can't think of pie - - not even chok-lit pie - - right now. LOL!! If it wasn't pouring outside right now, I'd go for a walk around the farm to see if I could work some of this food down a bit. I'm beat but too full to go to sleep. 8-\

I hope you had a great Turkey Day.

157 posted on 11/28/2003 1:15:46 AM PST by radu (May God watch over our troops and keep them safe)
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To: PhilDragoo
BTTT!!!!!!!
158 posted on 11/28/2003 3:09:42 AM PST by E.G.C.
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Comment #159 Removed by Moderator

To: PhilDragoo; SAMWolf; Darksheare; Colonel_Flagg

We must remember this!

160 posted on 11/28/2003 4:09:17 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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