Introduction

[RealEstateEntrepreneur]

Hey, all. Just wanted to introduce myself.

I was a Libertarian during high school (80's), but then decided the Libertarians had discredited themselves by focusing on the wrong issues--and were unelectable. By the time I went to college, I considered myself an Objectivist, and eventually held senior position at the Ayn Rand Institute for awhile.

I am, however, more interested and open to talking to and working with other reasonable parties on the right than are most Objectivists, and have been an ardent supporter of the Republican party and, on the whole, of Bush (despite disagreements on some issues) for a number of years.

I've been intending to get involved with the Republicans, the RLC, the Club for Growth, and some other groups.

So here I am!

Looking forward to interesting discussions.

David

[KrisKrinkle]

"I am, however, more interested and open to talking to and working with other reasonable parties..."

Are you sure you're posting to the right website?

Maybe you should have lurked a little longer before you signed up :)

Welcome.

[AdrianSpidle]

Hi David,

I too have gotten a bit disappointed by doctrinaire Libertarians (I'm still registered as such).

The war against terrorism has agravated this problem for me. I totally support W on tthis war and my Libertarian friends are starting to really bug me in their pacifism.

Also I do support government support of research and a very limited safety net.

Adrian Spidle - in transition

[Jack Black]

I have strong libertarian sympathies. But the war has been hard on L's. A lot just don't get it. Liberty magazine, for one. I've enjoyed reading it for several years but the last two or three issues have been Bush bashing extravaganzas worthy of "Z". The Nation has a more mature and nuanced view of things!

There are plenty of Libertarians here, but plenty of cultural conservaatives. I've learned a lot in the five years I've been on. It's changed some of my beliefs, and perhaps I've changed others.

The Club for Growth is great. I belong and give when I can to their candidates. I'm going to contribute to Toomey, the fellow running in the primary against Arlen Spector, he of the "magic bullet" Warren Commission and "Scottish Law" vote against impeaching the rapist. To move the R party in the right direction I strongly feel we need to keep lots of pressure on RINOs and make an example of at least one or two per election cycle. The CfG is the preeminant org for this.

Welcome aboard. I'd like to know more about the RLC. I haven't seen much out of them.

What I would really like is for the Libertarian Party to nominate some one smarter and more amusing than that idiot Harry Browne! He just comes off like a carpetbagger. The L Party needs to admit that they are a fringe party and start acting like it, especially in the Presidential election. Vin Syprnowitz or someone like that. Lets try to just get WOD on the table for discussion. That would be a huge service. Nominate a black libertarian and use billboard ads in the primarily Dem minority communities hardest hit by WOD with a simple message "vote for me and I will free all drug prisoners". That would be great political theatre.

[RealEstateEntrepreneur]

I couldn't disagree more strongly.

Focusing on legalizing drugs is the WORST possible thing you can do, politically. Focusing on the American Dream, the creative entrepreneur--freeing them up to bring forth new ideas, new inventions, and increase our standard of living--THAT's what sells. (And what's 100 times more important than legalizing drugs.)

Also, you don't win elections by running extreme platforms the country isn't ready for. I'm an extremist personally--but parties must be more incrementalist to be viable.

I have some ideas on how to use the Republican party to incrementally move towards liberty--but that's for another post.

[Jack Black]

How extreme is legalizing or decriminalizing drugs. If you go into a lower income community, or a black ghetto how many families have been torn apart by drug laws. Here in Portland a black girl of 20 years old was just shot to death by the police from trying to run from them. She had two kids. She was a crack head. She had a warrent out. She made a lot of very stupid decisions that resulted in her death. There is an entire community up in arms over this. I think a calm libertarian who came in and explained to people: you have a choice, you can try to fight drugs like a war, in which case people are going to continue to die at the hands of police guns or you can choose another path. People will still die of overdoses and infections and all the other horrors of drug addiction, maybe even more, probably less. But the police killing can stop now.

What percent of American familys have member in jail for a drug crime? What percent of Black American families? That is a lot of potential votes. Every Black vote moved from the (90% compliant) current ultra-statist Democratic voting machine to ANYTHING else is a great boost for Liberty. Plus, if you can get anyone to say "I'm voting Libertarian" even once you've got the potential to get them thinking about what it means, which is great.

What policy or platform would you suggest the L party use to increase it's vote. Didn't Harry Browne run as sort of a common sense, Bob your Uncle libertarian campaign? Isn't 1980 still the high point for libertarian pres votes?

What's your plan for the R's. I'm interested.

[RealEstateEntrepreneur]

What's my plan for the LP? To ignore it. As I already said, they discredited themselves years ago. Especially on defense.

And while I support an extreme laissez-faire capitalist agenda, I also know that the party that brings us toward it will do so by offering it to the public in incremental stages--not as an extreme political theory.

The Republicans can do this by running on the Reagan/Bush43 economic agenda, taking it a step farther each election cycle.

Something has to be done about the religious right agenda. I have a strategy on that, which I'll write up sometime soon.

David

[Voice in your head]

well?

[jackbob]

The L Party needs to admit that they are a fringe party and start acting like it, especially in the Presidential election.

Great point. Though I would say 'especially in local elections.' But I would not exempt Presidential elections from this observation/advice either.

The problem, as I see it, is not so much that the LP does not act like a fringe party. It is that they do so, and act like they don't know it.

As far a Harry Browne goes, I would not call him an idiot. But I do say he damaged the LP by running more than once, breaking the LP tradition of never having the same candidate nominated twice. But I place most of that blame on the LP membership.

[jackbob]

Focusing on legalizing drugs is the WORST possible thing you can do, politically...

Also, you don't win elections by running extreme platforms the country isn't ready for. I'm an extremist personally--but parties must be more incrementalist to be viable.

I am a bit confused by your reply to Jack Black. I thought you were RLC. Yet you give advise for the LP to abandon its fringe outreach potential. Any attempt to get the LP to act more like a major party and seek to win elections, hurts the overall movement for greater liberty. The LP should do what it is capable of doing best, that is carrying the message of free enterprise economics to those who would otherwise not listen to the message. Attempting to water down that outreach potential and try to win elections, hurts the overall libertarian movement.

[Jack Black]

Yeah, good point.

[Designer]

Sending this late; just signed on yesterday. Fortunately, there is an alternative. Go visit the Constitution Party's website. Also, have a look at The John Birch Society's website; JBS.org, and various links available. These are not connected nor affiliated, but thought you might find peace of mind in knowing about them both. The C.P. will provide an outlet for your political activities, and the JBS will provide answers to many of your questions.