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To: aSeattleConservative
They get to "pick and choose" which of God's laws they want to abide by. Your statement of being pro-life; followed by your stance on the legalization of drugs proves just that.

Please enlighten me on which of God's laws calls for the prohibition of drugs by the state. I don't recall reading that anywhere. Does it explicitly state this?

A similar tact was taken by the prohibitionists, who attempted to scrub all references to alcohol from the Bible. Verses like 1 Timothy 5:23 didn't fit with their dogma (Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.)

They fail to see that they are "slaves" to those things that God see's as sinful; and they fail to see that they are indeed slaves to a government that esentially has a cop on every corner, a camera in every public area and a metal detector in every doorway; all due to their immoral behavior, which indeed DOES hurt society in general.

Wow...where to begin. Someone is only a slave to something insofar as much as their free will allows it to control their lives in excess. Even the verse above suggests that God did not abhor the consumption of alcohol in moderation. Alcohol is a drug. For most people, in moderation, it does absolutely no harm.

I'll ask again, where does the scripture expressly prohibit the consumption of an herb? How do you factor Genisis 1:29 into that non-existent statement of prohbition?

And do you really think that 'metal detectors' are the fruit of immoral libertarian behavior? So it's now immoral to concealed carry? I thought we were having an intelligent conversation here ;) Maybe this 'nanny-state' is a place in which you care to live. But me? No thanks.

While Jefferson by today's standards might be called a liberal unitarian, he by no standards was a moral relativist atheist.

I never said he was. Jefferson was pretty much an Anglican and also a self proclaimed 'diest'. But this again reminds me of a favorite quote of his:

I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know. -- Thomas Jefferson

He also VEHEMENTLY rejected your notion of the goal that Christianity, or that any religious law be used to produce a citizenry with such uniform behavior patterns as you describe:

Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth. -- Thomas Jefferson

Jefferson did believe in moral law (see the quote on my FR page), but he absolutely did not believe in government endorsing the moral dictates of a particular religion, that is EXACLTY the opposite of what Jefferson believed.

The impious presumption of legislators and and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world and through all time: That to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical;... -- Thomas Jefferson

Few listened to him, or his words were forgotten. For this is how we have arrived at the nanny-state you so eloquently described in your last paragraph.
71 posted on 02/20/2010 9:31:33 AM PST by bamahead (Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master. -- Sallust)
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To: bamahead
Please enlighten me on which of God's laws calls for the prohibition of drugs by the state. I don't recall reading that anywhere. Does it explicitly state this?

Remember my earlier post my friend: "...the magistrate, the ruler, "is the minister of God to thee for good" (vs. 4). The ruler is God's minister, His diakonos. He is a deacon, a laborer, a ministrant, an attendant to people for God. As the derivation of diakonos shows, he is one who runs errands: God's errands. In particular, he is to be a Christian teacher and pastor."

Therefore it is civil government's duty to legislate according to God's laws. With that in mind, let's see what God says about intoxicants:

Corinthians 6 verses 19 - 20 Revised Standard Version:
19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own;
20 you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

I found the attached link written by two conservatives showing the threat of illegal drug legalization. The following shows bibical sources proving their point: " There are, however, much deeper roots to the conservative objection: The conservative philosophy is grounded in and guided by eternal truths; it does not separate itself from God. It moves toward God, and it understands freedom in the way God intended freedom to be exercised.
A Biblical verse that explains this is Paul's Galatians 5:13-14: "For you were called for freedom, brothers. But do not use this freedom as an opportunity for the flesh; rather, serve one another through love. For the whole law is fulfilled in one statement, namely, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"
Note the caveat, the "but" that follows, "For you were called for freedom, brothers." This is not a hedonistic or uncontrolled freedom."
http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/PrintFriendly?oid=18179

A similar tact was taken by the prohibitionists...

While biblical verses are aplenty on the use/misuse of alcohol, let's talk secular for a minute.

Prohibition was overturned at a time when our country was still dominated by a Christian culture. The people had "moral restraints" and made laws for those that didn't when it came to alcohol. While some of the following laws still exist today, they've been loosened if not totally abolished in many places throughout the US.

Intoxicated in public ordinances (i.e. a night in the drunk tank).
Open container laws.
The prohibition of the sale of alcohol on Sunday.
Regulations on who and when alcoholic beverages can be sold.
In general our society has become one of much less virtue; and you want to open up the floodgates promoting drug usage to our current society knowing the devastation that alcohol use has done to our society? (Here's comes the standard libertarian speech saying "There will be victims along the way to true individual liberty".).

And do you really think that 'metal detectors' are the fruit of immoral libertarian behavior?

Yes, metal detectors are the fruit of IMMORAL BEHAVIOR. Behavior that is based on moral relativism, not God's laws. When a woman walks into a building and starts shooting her co-workers because she didn't get tenure, biblical scripture and things like "thou shalt not murder" are the last things on her mind.

So it's now immoral to concealed carry?

The right to keep and bare arms is not only a constitutional right, but an "unalienable right" (something given to us by God that can't be taken away by man under any circumstances). Don't confuse something like a gun that is used for good, yet has been hijacked by evil as well, with drugs that are inherently used to get hiiiiiiiigh and escape reality.
http://www.gemworld.com/USA-Unalienable.htm

I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know. -- Thomas Jefferson

While Thomas Jefferson was only one player in the Founding of our Christian nation (one of the least religious), his actions speak louder than the words you've posted:

" “Mr. Jefferson,” says Randall, “was a public professor of his belief in the Christian religion. In all his most important early state papers, such as his Summary View of the Rights of British America, his portion of the Declaration made by Congress on the causes of taking up arms, the Declaration of Independence, the draft of a Constitution for Virginia, &c., there are more or less pointed recognitions of God and Providence. In his two inaugural addresses as President of the United States, and in many of his annual messages, he makes the same recognitions, clothes them on several occasions in the most explicit language, substantially avows the God of his faith to be the God of revelation, declares his belief in the efficacy of prayer and the duty of ascriptions of praise to the Author of all mercies, and speaks of the Christian religion, as professed in his country, as a benign religion, evincing the favor of Heaven. “Had his wishes been consulted, the symbol borne on the national seal would have contained our public profession of Christianity as a nation. “He contributed freely to the erection of Christian churches, gave money to Bible societies and other religious objects, and was a liberal and regular contributor to the support of the clergy.He attended church with as much regularity as most members of the congregation, sometimes going alone on horseback when his family remained at home. He generally attended the Episcopal church, and, when he did so, always carried his prayer-book and joined in the responses and prayers of the congregation.” The establishment of the University of Virginia occupied the closing years of Jefferson’s life. His wish was to make the institution rival the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge in England, and afford opportunities for young men to become thoroughly accomplished in every branch of learning. A part of his plan was a theological seminary in connection with the university. Rev. Mr. Tucker, of Virginia, in the Presbyterian synod, met in 1859, said that “the establishment of a theological seminary near the University of Virginia was carrying out the original idea of Mr. Jefferson. He had seen in Mr. Jefferson’s own handwriting, the pains-taking style of the olden time, a sketch of his plan. The University of Virginia was the crowning glory of that great man’s life, and he felt it his duty to vindicate his memory, as he had it in his power to do, from any intention to exclude religious influences from the institution. He had invited all denominations to establish theological schools around the university, so that all might have the literary advantages of the institution, without making it subservient to one denomination.”
From "The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States: pages 168/169.

72 posted on 02/21/2010 8:30:12 AM PST by aSeattleConservative
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