[JNB]

The Holy Sprit did indeed inspire Vatican II, though who knows what exactly inspired Abp. Bugnini, but that said, the holy spirit did protect Pope Pual VI enough to prevent the Novus Ordo from becoming openly herritical, and when it is celebrated properly as it is in the few examples I have given(and Anglican Use is also based on the Novus Ordo as well), it is a wonderful and rich liturgy that is faithful. But in so many cases, it becomes a completely horizontal event, the sacraficial nature of it becomes lost all too often, and while technically it may still be a sacrafice, it more resembles a weekly gathering that has a few "happy hymns", a gutless homily with very little hint of the sacrafice, because they all say it is a "communal meal".

For a good look at what the Novus Ordo can and should be , go to http://www.stagnes.net and http://www.assumptiongrotto.com

[tiki]

I replied to your post before I saw your post to me.

I think that our diocese has very wonderful NO masses. We are tucked away from the liberal cities and the changes have been slower. I know that I have read of horrible abuses in other dioceses but even then I would probably feel that I had a job to do to help bring about change.

As a convert, I take being a Catholic very seriously. Especially when I yelled at God one day when I was feeling guilty about not going to any church for 14 years. I yelled and I really mean yelled, "God, If you want me to go to church then MAKE me." I learned you shouldn't challenge God unless you are serious. He has ways of causing one little miracle after another and opening each door as you come to it.

Well, anyway, what I'm trying to say is that flawed or not, the Catholic Church is where I'm supposed to be. It may be because I am supposed to do something or it may be that I'm just supposed to be obedient to God. I don't hate Trads but I think that they are cowards because they are afraid that Jesus hasn't or won't keep His promise and that their salvation hinges on ceremony rather than on the Grace of God. I trust that if I am worshipping God with a true heart then He can overcome the abuses and make the Sacraments real because of His Grace.

[royalcello]

I visted those websites, and they are very impressive. I am a classical musician, and I would love it there. The problem is, N.O. masses like these are pretty rare. So what does a Catholic (or, in my case, a potential future Catholic) do if he/she doesn't live anywhere near this kind of mass? The fact that St. Agnes and Assumption Grotto are very much the exception suggests to me that the trads must be on to something when they argue that there is something inherently wrong with the Novus Ordo, even if it's possible for the occasional parish to overcome the usual deficiencies associated with it.

Coincidentally, I am currently preparing to audition for a job with the Minnesota Orchestra. If I win it, I will certainly pay a visit to St. Agnes as well as the local Indult.