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To: traditionalist
The vow of celibacy taken by a priest is not nearly as sublime as the vow of fidelity to a spouse. The latter is a necessary element of a sacrament. The former is not. Ergo it is possible to release a man from celibacy, but not marital fidelity.
The marital equivalent is an annulment. Both went through superficially valid sacraments that had all necessary elements. That the vow itself is a necessary sacramental element to one, and not to the other, would seem to be to be a bit of a nitpick in the context of this discussion. IMHO we are not discussing Sacramental validity, but the violation of a vow.
A man released from a vow does not violate it.
I’ve been aware of the circumstances behind only about a dozen former priests who’ve been released. In each and every one of those cases though, the priest was “dating” a woman before being released. Without getting into the details of what is or isn’t dating, I think that is enough to violate their vows. Accordingly, I have to disagree with you. There are exceptions, of course, but many of these men do violate their vows before they are released.

patent

89 posted on 10/08/2003 12:15:34 PM PDT by patent (A baby is God's opinion that life should go on. Carl Sandburg)
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To: patent
The marital equivalent is an annulment. Both went through superficially valid sacraments that had all necessary elements.

Absolutely not!!! In the case of an annulment, THERE NEVER WAS A SACRAMENT. In the case of a laicized priest there is no question of sacramental validity. A LAICIZED PRIEST REMAINS A PRIEST FOR ETERNITY. The sacramental imprint on the soul remains for eternity, laicized or not.

There are no similarities between the two cases.

That the vow itself is a necessary sacramental element to one, and not to the other, would seem to be to be a bit of a nitpick in the context of this discussion. IMHO we are not discussing Sacramental validity, but the violation of a vow.

One cannot violate a vow from which one has been released. It is a logical impossibility. Sacramental necessity is essential to this discussion because that is what determines whether it is possible to be released from a vow. A married man cannot be released from his vow. A priest can. That is at the very core of what we are discussing.

I’ve been aware of the circumstances behind only about a dozen former priests who’ve been released. In each and every one of those cases though, the priest was “dating” a woman before being released. Without getting into the details of what is or isn’t dating, I think that is enough to violate their vows. Accordingly, I have to disagree with you. There are exceptions, of course, but many of these men do violate their vows before they are released.

It is impossible to validly infer anything about laicization cases in general from twelve annecdotes. You need to take a case statistical inference.

Certainly, if a priest was dating before being released from his vows, he violated them and sinned. You have no idea if that was the case with this man. You have absolutely no basis upon which to accuse him. You are dangerously close to committing the sin of slander if you persist.

101 posted on 10/08/2003 4:34:21 PM PDT by traditionalist
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