Heavenly Hootenanny How folk music -- and the counterculture -- entered the Catholic Church

The Boston Globe ^ | October 5, 2003 | Mark Oppenheimer

[Aliska]

I've been working on this problem/sin since I was 13 or 14 but I can't seem to overcome it.

At least you're honest enough to tell the truth. And I'm going to be honest enough to tell you that I don't know how to overcome it.

I took a girl to mass for awhile, and she said "Nobody wants to shake my hand." Now she is a eucharistic minister :-).

[rogator]

"they would be embarrassed to take them to Mass at their parish."

I have been there, so I got these folks started in a Portland parish with a traditional choir. Unfortuately our bishop, one of Bernardin's boys, and his liberal minions put the skids under the choir last year.
I hate (I wish I knew a stronger word) the drivel that is sung in our parish and I refuse to sing any of the inane, irreverant and sometimes heretical garbage in our OCP songbook.

[JNB]

Have you tried Holy Rosary parish in Portland yet? Where I live I go to a similar parish that is ran by the Dominicans, no OCP or GIA hymnals, Collegeville is used, no altar girls, no female lectors, no EMEs and communion rail is still used. People I have talked to all have given Holy Rosary the highest marks, and since the Dominicans run it, what the bishop can do is limited.

[rogator]

I go to Holy Rosary whenever we can manage a six to seven hour round trip.
Although HR does not have a scheduled Latin Mass on Sunday, it has the one of the only consistently licit and reverent Novus Ordo English Masses I have ever seen.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

A female friend who converted is finding it dizzying to no end how many different heterodox, heretical, or just plain weird phenomena she encounters in American Catholicism.

[JNB]

Living in a more populated area, where I have a option of choosing parish', I forget that Catholics in rural areas are often the most impacted by the liturgical nonsense and have to deal with it because there is no other option. I will pray that your local parish eventually gets a pastor that who realised the church did not start in 65 created by the likes of Karl Rhaner and Abp. Bugnini.

As for Dominicans, its intresting that unlike Jesuits, they are all over the theological map.

[JNB]

If someone asked me they were converting to the church, I would be very careful on what parish to send them to because of so many different variations of the mass and obvious lapses in orthodoxy at so many parish'. With certain clergy obvious lapses of adhereing to Catholic traditions in liturgy and some basic church teachings such as Rerum Novarum, one has to be very careful.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Absolutely! I only refer people to clergy or institutions I know.

[Pyro7480]

I checked out Holy Rosary's website, and I was impressed! They still have the tabernacle in its proper place and they use a high altar!

[JNB]

St Patricks in Columbus Ohio is almost identical to Holy Rosary in Portland in terms of rubrics used, though probably uses less Latin. It seems of the major religous orders, the Dominicans, despite the fact that is where "theologian" Matthew Fox came from, has been far more successful in resisting hetrodxy. Though to be sure, Holy Rosary and St Patricks are the only Dominican parish' I know of that dont have Eucharistic ministers and still use communion rails, but even Dominican ran parish' in places such as San Francisco still are largely "unrennovated" and still have better liturgy than the typical diocean parish'.

I do think conregations have played a role in keeping both of these parish' free of much of the liturgical hetrodoxy, since probably the parishoners are what I would call Liturgical refugees from other parish', and would not put up with altar girls, Eucharistic minsiters or removal of the altar rail. Anyways, I tried to get a list going a few months ago, but can other Freepers make a list of "high church" parish' that use the Novus Ordo missal. Qualifications are that the altar rail must be used, no altar girls and no Eucharistic ministers. This list can help other Freepers are going cross country.

Here is a list I have
Our Lady of Peace- Santa Clara CA(only problem here is the use of the OCP hymnal)
Holy Rosary -Portland Or
Assumption Grotto- Detroit MI
St. Agnes- St. Paul MN
St John Canitus- Chicago IL(also hosts the Tridentine as well)
St. Agnes- NY-NY(also hosts the tridentine mass)
St. Patricks- Columbus OH
I am not 100% sure, but I think the chapel at Thomas Aquanis College near Ventura CA also has these features.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Liturgical refugees

As opposed to the "hostages"...

[JNB]

I suspect many of the younger priests as well would like to go back towrds more tradition, but they for now have a couple of problems, one, most are not pastors yet, and two, if they did get rid of altar girls, EMEs and restore the rails, the chancery office would make his life difficult.

[dsc]

"many Roman Catholics being in sync with both American culture and the spirit of Vatican II."

Shudder. Is that what Catholicism is supposed to be?

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Yes. Sadly. I am familiar with the struggles and labors of a few of the true, the proud, and the conservatively orthodox in the Society of Jesus...dwindling now, of course.

Very cautious and disciplined diplomatic skills and some deft cunning are required to survive institutionally within American Catholicism. That applies to clergy and those of us among the laity who find ourselves struggling to keep the lamps of genuine learning and Christian civilization alive amidst the surrounding darkness.

[JNB]

As I said a couple of weeks back, the orthdox, more traditional minded clergy and laity simpily have to hold on till 2010, that is the point where the bulk of the Vatican II era clergy start to retire, and when the progressives sisters and ex priests staffingthe chancery offices will start to retire in bulk as well. It is not going to be pleasant in the meantime, but the restoration will happen one day. Talking to someone associated with Una Voce, the FSSP seminary this year had 120 applications, yet could only accept 11.

As for the list of traditional leaning parish that use the Novus Ordo, I forget to add Chistendom College in Virginia.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Quite a lot of explaining to do for the benefit of younger orthodox Catholics to understand what happened and how the Church in America has ended up in this state of affairs.

[rogator]

These explanations might start with the fact that Catholics were lied to regarding changes REQUIRED by Vatican II. We trusted our clergy to tell the truth and the internet or source documents were not readily available to check the facts.
All Anglican use parishes could be added to your licit and reverent list.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Well, I know there are some Catholic posters on FR who find this troubling, but speaking as one who was there as a witness at the revolution, anti-Catholic secret societies were involved in the de-Catholicization and secularization of Catholic colleges and universities. That's a fact.

[JNB]

EXACTLY! I big pet peeve of mine, is that faithful Catholics were blindly obidient when Latin was eliminated, the altar rails taken away, lay Eurcharistic ministers introduced, communion in the hand introduced and then altar girls introduced. They all were more or less told this was a Vatican requirement. I view altar girls as the last major lituirgical victory progressives are going to win, and one wonders how much the use of altar girls would have spread if they were authorised after the internet came out.

Being blindly obidient, when the faithful did not question the clergy when these changes were shoved down their throat was a big reason why we got in this mess, and its a good reason why in the cuirrent situation, we can not afford to be blindly obidient when clergy say "The Vatican directed this"

[Conservative til I die]

The one I remember from my youth was "Sing to the Mountain" strummed on guitar by our bulldyke sister. Thankfully my Church underwent a renovation, lots of marble, heyoooge organ in the back balcony.