The new Cardinals: orientation and a brief bio on each

National Catholic Reporter ^ | 10/03/2003 | John L. Allen

[Salvation]

**Moderator, can I retract this all?**

What would you retract or change?

[Remole]

If the conclave occurs within the next 18 months, none of the new cardinals will be elected. But if this Pope lives beyond that (mirabile visu!), the my money is on: Panafieu.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Renato Martino, 70, Italian:

YES! Martini's out, Martino is in. Italian, 70 (short reign), aaannnndd, the Glory of the Olive! St. Malachy did have a sense of humor :-)

I'll go back and seriously read these now.

[dangus]

Retract.

[dangus]

O, God, no!

[dangus]

Aw... now I'm not sure I do retract... Hey guys, which is the liberal one and which is the conservative one?

[Catholicguy]

I am too shaken by the fact there isn't, yet, a single Eskimo Cardinal so I can't even address the putative heresy of these men.

[saradippity]

I think Dangus wants this removed because he predicated his opinions on what he now considers an error. However,,Dangus The National Catholic Reporter is the "progressive" font of propaganda,and your original analysis,based on what you believed it to be based on is therefore,probably correct.

The Catholic Register is not involved in this article so hold off the moderators and check your facts again.

[Maximilian]

I though the NCR who wrote this were the wacko-leftist ones, and if they've got no problem with a 51-yr-old Hungarian, he's scary.

This IS the "whacko leftist" National Catholic Reporter, not the Legion-controlled mouthpiece for the neo-con establishment, the National Catholic Register.

[Gophack]

The only thing we can do is pray. Pray hard. Ask the Holy Spirit to guide the Church as Jesus promised us. And know that no matter what happens, it is the will of God because He will not allow the Church to fall.

[dangus]

>>I think Dangus wants this removed because he predicated his opinions on what he now considers an error. However,,Dangus The National Catholic Reporter is the "progressive" font of propaganda,and your original analysis,based on what you believed it to be based on is therefore,probably correct.

You are correct about my presumptions and desires.

[Remole]

What can you tell us (this is meant in all honesty)? I know nothing about the man. All I can go on is the outline, and it's my bet that the Conclave would look for someone with his credentials. The HOly Spirit, of course, will ultimately decide . . .

[pseudo-justin]

I have become interested in St. Malachy.

Are you folks thinking that Martino is the "glory of the olive" because his pacifist position would be represented by an olive branch -- the symbol for peace?

And the glory of the olive is supposed to have a short reign, and Martino is 70.

Also, JPII is rumored to have said this past summer that his successor had not yet been incardinated. So, Martino would fit that bill too.

BTW, can anybody supply a real news source that can verify that JPII said that this last summer about his successor?

Finally, what do you folks make of the accusation that the prohecy of St. Malachy is a 16th century figment of Nostradamus attributed to St. Malachy?

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

The Martini-Martino-Glory of the Olive has been kind of a running joke (Martini as in the mixed alcoholic drink). If it really happened I would be hilariously surprised.

I've never heard of any connection between St.Malachy and Nostradamus. St. Malachy was an Irish bishop or archbishop. Nostradamus was a French Jewish mystic who converted to Catholicism, some allege forcibly. He was also a physician who saved many from the plague with his natural remedies. He takes a lot of ridicule but many of his prophecies regarding Popes have been accurate. His prophecies are more heavily coded than St. Malachy and thus more difficult to decipher.

[el_chupacabra]

Sorry I don't have a source for this, but I recently read that the prevailing line of thought is that the "predictions" attributed to St. Malachy likely were fraudulent.


Let me see if I can't find some backup for my statement.

Thanks

[Catholicguy]

"Trial, Tribulation, & Triumph Before, During, and After AntiChrist," Desmond A. Birch is an orthodox, richly-sourced collection that only treats of prophecy that resonates with The Magisterium, Catholic Church Fathers etc and Birch says that St. Malachy, re his putative list, is not reliable on that matter.

This is a great book that every Catholic ought to think about buying. Check it out on Amazon to read endorsements, sample pages ect.

I saw hermann the cherusker recommend this book while I was lurking. I bought it and it is smashing

[Unam Sanctam]

I love how this Allen fellow uses the term doctrinal "conservative" when he means faithful to orthodox teaching and "progressive" when he means dissenting therefrom. Not hard to guess where this reporter's loyalties lie. How can this reporter be considered objective?

[pseudo-justin]

I have heard several things about St. Malachy's prophecy. I have heard that the list of popes attributed to St. Malachy cannot be verified as originating with him, for the list did not appear until the 16th century. And there is no recorded mention of its existence prior to that. So, some argue, Nostradamus created the list but pseudonymously attributed the list to St. Malachy. Another theory calls the list a Jesuit invention.

I have no idea what to think about it. It seems seriously stretching it to fit the title ascribed by St. Malachy to some popes. I mean, John XXIII fits it because he is from a certain town?

It is like trying to decipher the horoscope.

Then again, this Martino guy is exactly the sort of figure that the defenders of St. Malchy's list will try to use to show that he fulfills the "prophecy", and they might very well point to his pacifism as precisely the thing that "glory of the olive" stands for (glory of the olive=olive branch=peace=pacifism=Martino). If you think that is ridiculous, then the whole St. Malachy thing is ridiculous, because almost all the titles need to be stretched about that far to make the list work.

Can anyone make a good argument vindicating the authenticity and reliability of the prophey of St. Malachy? I am all ears and open-minded.

[pseudo-justin]

Thanks for the reference to Birch. I will be checking that out.