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To: Havoc
>>Ecclesiastes says they can have nothing more to do ever with anything that happens under the sun.

Still stuck before the resurrection; Ecclesiastes describes pre-Christian Jews. I'm talking about the firstfruit saints.

>>Next, you reference what John saw in heaven going on, that would be John seeing events in heaven, not vice versa.

But describing things which were happening (albeit in a symbolic way) or which will happen.

>>But, then you neglect to note it is a vision, not an actual happenstance. John wasn't in heaven, nor was the remnant in heaven on earth making a display for John's benefit.

So now Revelations is nothing more than a vision, not a prophecy? Not truth?

447 posted on 10/01/2003 10:12:43 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus
Still stuck before the resurrection; Ecclesiastes describes pre-Christian Jews. I'm talking about the firstfruit saints.

Who cares what you call it. It doesn't change the fact that it's sin. If you get busted smoking pot in a car, you can say "aw i was just.." what ever you want, doesn't change the fact of you're being busted smoking pot. And unless or untill you can show specific scripture stating that this changed when Christ said it had not been done away with, then you are doing nothing but spouting false doctrine.

But describing things which were happening (albeit in a symbolic way) or which will happen.

So what, that is prophecy. It came from God, not from men in heaven. Huge difference.

So now Revelations is nothing more than a vision, not a prophecy? Not truth?

Indeed, the book itself proclaims from the outset that it is a vision. Can you not read. The truth of the work was not questioned - your perversion of what was happening is what got challenged. And when you got called on it, you handwring and come up with THIS? Revelation may be prophecy, and nobody here disputed that. But that prophecy does not include the notion that it became ok to speak to dead people. Nor does it say that it later will. Nor does a vision of happenings in heaven mean that dead men can interfere with the goings on of the living. Ecclesiastes still rules the day.

452 posted on 10/01/2003 10:26:05 AM PDT by Havoc (If you can't be frank all the time are you lying the rest of the time?)
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