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Liturgy: Are Glass Chalices OK for Mass?
Zenit News Agency ^
| September 16, 2003
Posted on 09/17/2003 6:34:12 AM PDT by NYer
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1
posted on
09/17/2003 6:34:13 AM PDT
by
NYer
To: american colleen; sinkspur; livius; Lady In Blue; Salvation; Polycarp; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; ...
Here's an opportunity to submit all those questions you wanted to ask but were afraid to and, hopefully, get answers.
Suggestion: let's pool our resources, compile a list and submit them one at a time. Then we can monitor the answers to determine whether or not our questions are being addressed.
So, can a priest celebrate with a glass chalice?
In my parish, the pastor consecrates the wine using a gold chalice. There is also a glass pitcher and two glass goblets for distribution of the Precious Blood.
2
posted on
09/17/2003 6:48:57 AM PDT
by
NYer
(Catholic and living it.)
To: NYer
If a stone goblet is ok, shouldn't a glass goblet be ok, since glass is made (mostly) from quartz sand, a silicate?
3
posted on
09/17/2003 6:52:33 AM PDT
by
xzins
To: NYer
My parish priest uses a "pottery barn" type of chalice with the tree of life decoration on it. OTOH, the retired priest in residence (and any visiting priest saying Mass) uses a gold (leaf?) chalice.
I struggle with wondering somehow, if things like this are silly and not worth the time spent wondering or reading or writing about them, especially since norms seem so broadly written that there is no clear cut definitive answer (or room for YOPI) - as is the case with Tabernacle location or altar crucifix placement. And what if my parish priest was given the pottery chalice by someone very dear to him? Who am I? Does God really care?
On the other hand... where do the little "sort of" disobedience things stop?
So this is where I put my fingers in my ears, chant "la-la-la-la I can't hear you" real loudly and jump up and down. ;-)
To: xzins; NYer
(1) The chalice should be made or at least lined with a precious material. Glass, especially in 21st century America, does not meet that standard by a long shot.
(2) Stone doesn't meet it either, but stone is better than glass because glass is liable to break if the cruets, etc. hit it.
(3) There is no reason why any parish in the US should be unable to afford at least a gold-lined chalice. They cost maybe $200.
5
posted on
09/17/2003 6:57:09 AM PDT
by
wideawake
(God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
To: american colleen
I struggle with wondering somehow, if things like this are silly and not worth the time spent wondering or reading or writing about them, You should stop wondering. Things like this are silly. Common sense should prevail, and usually does.
6
posted on
09/17/2003 7:00:21 AM PDT
by
sinkspur
(Adopt a dog or a cat from a shelter! You'll save at least one life, maybe two!)
To: wideawake
Glass can be thick cut and as difficult to break as stone.
Spilling seems to be a more serious concern than does breakage. The chalice would break if it were dropped. But that wouldn't matter given that spillage would occur.
Metal, if dropped, will also spill.
7
posted on
09/17/2003 7:00:50 AM PDT
by
xzins
To: american colleen
I think the norms are narrowly-enough written to rule out glass and ceramics.
The priest doesn't get to select the instruments of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass according to his own personal feelings. He has a job to do and he has a GIRM to tell him how to do it properly.
God does care if people obey the Church he established on Peter or if they disobey it. He cares a lot.
8
posted on
09/17/2003 7:01:37 AM PDT
by
wideawake
(God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
To: xzins
Glass can be thick cut and as difficult to break as stone.This is true: but such a chalice is probably significantly heavier and it must be elevated at least twice. And heavy glass isn't any more precious for being heavy.
Spilling seems to be a more serious concern than does breakage.
Which is why, after the consecration, the chalice should be moved as little as possible and handled by as few people as possible. Of course, the modern fad for utraquism presents problems on that front.
9
posted on
09/17/2003 7:05:36 AM PDT
by
wideawake
(God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
To: NYer
What's the big deal? Glass, wood, metal?
10
posted on
09/17/2003 7:06:52 AM PDT
by
jjm2111
To: jjm2111
What's the big deal? Glass, wood, metal?The big deal is the desire to offer God the very finest material things we have.
Wood is a definite practical problem: the Sacrifice should never be offered in an absorbent container.
11
posted on
09/17/2003 7:14:25 AM PDT
by
wideawake
(God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
To: NYer
My parish doesn't disobey liturgical law by distributing the Precious Blood at sunday Mass. And the Priest uses gold chalices.
I'm tired of all this "latitude" and "options".
To: wideawake
God does care if people obey the Church he established on Peter or if they disobey it. He cares a lot. You know I agree with you 100% here on dogmatic (faith and morals) issues and even matters of discipline. Took me a number of years to understand, but I'm there, by the grace of God.
However, reading the GIRM on what constitutes proper make up of the chalice... it's all over the place. I know what I would use (precious metal) and why, but it seems that when all is said and done, precious metal is a strong suggestion in the GIRM and not liturgical law. Way too "all over the place" - just like Tabernacle placement.
Drives me nuts.
To: Hermann the Cherusker
I didn't know that you can't distribute the Precious Blood at Sunday Mass? My parish doesn't (but does at weekday Masses) but the Holy Cross Cathedral (the Cardinal/Bishop's) parish does distribute the Precious Blood at the Sunday Mass. What's up with that?
To: american colleen
Drives me nuts.It's certainly maddening - but remember that the GIRM is designed to apply to a mission church in Africa's interior as well as a parish church in a wealthy American suburb.
As I hinted above, in America such things shouldn't even be an issue: every parish in America can afford a chalice lined with gold.
In an African mission, the rumor of a gold-lined chalice might encourage an act of greedy violence against a priest.
Common sense should be applied in using the GIRM - leeway afforded to the unfortunate and oppressed shouldn't be twisted into a political weapon by lazy liberal priests in America.
15
posted on
09/17/2003 7:42:51 AM PDT
by
wideawake
(God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
To: NYer
IOW, leave the Waterford in the breakfront.
16
posted on
09/17/2003 7:45:18 AM PDT
by
Desdemona
(Kempis' Imitation of Christ online! http://www.leaderu.com/cyber/books/imitation/imitation.html)
To: wideawake
(1) The chalice should be made or at least lined with a precious material. Glass, especially in 21st century America, does not meet that standard by a long shot.
Ahhh, now that I think about it, Murano glass, because of the way it's cured might pass. It's pretty hard to break. And the red is mega expensive because gold is used to get the color. Next time I'm in Venice....
Just kidding, but Murano glass is tough.
17
posted on
09/17/2003 7:48:37 AM PDT
by
Desdemona
(Kempis' Imitation of Christ online! http://www.leaderu.com/cyber/books/imitation/imitation.html)
To: NYer
I've got a question:
Why is the Confiteor consistantly omitted?
18
posted on
09/17/2003 7:52:56 AM PDT
by
Desdemona
(Kempis' Imitation of Christ online! http://www.leaderu.com/cyber/books/imitation/imitation.html)
Comment #19 Removed by Moderator
To: Desdemona
Murano glass is tough - I bought some on Murano during my honeymoon and it's made it through two moves intact.
That being said, Murano glass is chiefly found in Italian-American homes and is generally used for decorative, knick-knack type purposes. The dignity of the Mass wouldn't be enhanced by the chalice looking just like Grandma's candy dish.
I'm glad you were kidding.
20
posted on
09/17/2003 7:56:55 AM PDT
by
wideawake
(God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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