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"Thou art a wimp forever" - bishops meeting
Touchstone Magazine - mere comments ^
| September 9, 2003
| Leon Podles
Posted on 09/08/2003 9:11:49 PM PDT by american colleen
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Well, we didn't really expect anything, did we?
To: Akron Al; Alberta's Child; Aloysius; Andrew65; AniGrrl; Antoninus; As you well know...; BBarcaro; ..
PING
2
posted on
09/08/2003 9:17:41 PM PDT
by
Loyalist
To: american colleen
The bishops take their cue from the Pope.
When the Vatican starts lowering the hammer, the bishops will also.
3
posted on
09/08/2003 9:19:23 PM PDT
by
sinkspur
(Adopt a dog or a cat from a shelter. You'll save a life, and enrich your own!)
To: NYer; saradippity; sandyeggo; Salvation; sinkspur; Tantumergo; ThomasMore; Aquinasfan; ...
FYI.
To: sinkspur
Nah. Those days are over and have been for a while, I think. Not many have listened to the pope (Magisterium) and fewer listen to the bishops. More listen to the theologians who have set themselves up as an alternate Magisterium. And even more appeal to their own consciences.
What makes you think differently?
I' going home from work in two minutes - not ignoring you!
To: american colleen
Not many have listened to the pope (Magisterium) and fewer listen to the bishops. I'll agree with this, especially after the sexual abuse scandal.
The bishops have compromised their crediblity for a generation.
6
posted on
09/08/2003 9:27:42 PM PDT
by
sinkspur
(Adopt a dog or a cat from a shelter. You'll save a life, and enrich your own!)
To: american colleen
If the American bishops lack the cajones to do their jobs, we need new bishops.
Where do you find 200 good episcopali?
I am very pessimistic and getting more so.
7
posted on
09/08/2003 9:33:23 PM PDT
by
rogator
To: rogator
I love JPII, but I think maybe we need someone in between him and a Pius XII (the one before John XXIII) - without the pomp and circumstance.
You know there are some really wonderful and holy bishops... imagine how hard it must be to be them?
What the bishops do and don't do matters a lot but it's not everything. I just worry about the possible converts who are repelled and/or offended. Probably all of us, if we are willing and able, have an indult that is sort of accessible - if we don't want to deal with our own parish bs. And the bishops... you get your good ones and you get your bad ones... always been that way, I guess.
When I was a kid I got kicked in the pants pretty good. My mother had an affair with a priest and so my parents ended up divorced. The Church gave her an annulment even though my dad didn't want one. Then all the collages and posters and CCD garbage. So I kind of left for a while. Until it came to me that the priests and the bishops weren't the Faith at all. They can help if you let them and they can hurt if you let them.
And none of it will matter at the end! Although I'll take one of whatever stripe please, at the end ;-)
To: sinkspur
The bishops have compromised their crediblity for a generation. And ours, in a way. It's certainly a time to live out your Faith instead of talking about your Faith (unless specifically asked).
To: american colleen
This brings to mind the passage: "the lukewarm shall be vomited forth." I don't buy the argument the bishops behaved as they did because they "hate confrontation". They were willing to confront the parents of victims by hiring high-priced attorneys who knew how to intimidate and to impoverish the people they went after. When that didn't work, they knew where to find the money to cover up.
No, our "spiritual shepherds" did what they did because they lavished their compassion on clerical molesters and rapists--rather than on the thousands of boys and youths who were victimized for decades. It was more important for them to accommodate a priest-molester than to prevent kids from having their lives and faiths destroyed. If they had an ounce of integrity, they would resign. But they are too corrupt to do so.
To: american colleen; sinkspur
"we are family, doing anything might make matters worse"
This is patently crap fatherhood - they are in dereliction of their duties as fathers to God's family.
Ratzinger has said before now that the current crisis in the clergy is a crisis of fatherhood and I think he is spot on.
No natural family could hope to survive as a place of security and communion for its children if the parents did not take steps to teach, correct and discipline where necessary. The supernatural family of the Church is no different.
Sometimes I am strongly tempted to think that what we need now is men with strong natural parenting skills:
1 Tim 3,1 "A faithful saying: if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 It behoveth therefore a bishop to be blameless, the husband of one wife, sober, prudent, of good behaviour, chaste, given to hospitality, a teacher,
3 Not given to wine, no striker, but modest, not quarrelsome, not covetous, but
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all chastity.
5 BUT IF A MAN KNOW NOT HOW TO RULE HIS OWN HOUSE, HOW SHALL HE TAKE CARE OF THE CHURCH OF GOD?
6 Not a neophyte: lest being puffed up with pride, he fall into the judgment of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good testimony of them who are without: lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."
To: Tantumergo
Sometimes I am strongly tempted to think that what we need now is men with strong natural parenting skills: Another psycological test? ;-) Lord! Spare us!
How about what we need now are men of great faith, great trust in God, honesty, integrity and bravery in the face of a culture that is fallen.
These priests and bishops didn't pop out of a vacuum, I would guess that most of them had fathers and grandfathers and uncles, family friends and blood brothers who are good and faithful fathers to their children. It seems that it is a loss of faith or a fear of fully living His word. It's hard to take a firm stand on the side of natural Law, God's Law. Just look at us! If we all embraced our faith and His Word, the culture would be in a different place than it is now.
Sometimes I think that the bishops reflect us.
To: Tantumergo
Fatherhood, yes, but manlihood as well. There is a happy medium between being manly and being outright confrontational. There are men out there like that. Whether or not they are called to the priesthood is another matter.
Although, I have thought for a long time that when a lot of people were supposed to be learning how to be parents, they weren't paying attention or there weren't any younger brothers and sisters, nieces and nephews and cousins to babysit and really learn how it should be done. That's part of the purpose of family and that's something, in a few strata of our society, that's been forgotten. That could be a big part of it. I know a lot of priests who are only children or one of two.
I've wondered for a while how we ended up with so many wimps in the priesthood. I'm not confrontational at all, but being a woman, that's okay. Men who aren't willing to be manly, well, that's more wimpy laziness, than anything else.
To: american colleen
Thanks for the post. This guy Podles is a real straight shooter. Everybody here should buy his book "The Church Impotent-The Feminization of Christianity". Explains the reasons behind the lack of men(statistically as well as anecdotally proven) interested in their faith(or at least Christianity). I doubt it was a big seller here on the west coast but it as a great book.
To: ultima ratio
They are not men. They deserve only our contempt for the outrage against young boys in the Church. Almost every one.
To: american colleen
I expected the worst - from personal experience. The Bishops met my expectations.
To: american colleen
Then all the collages and posters and CCD garbage. And the felt banners. You can't forget the felt banners.
17
posted on
09/09/2003 6:22:08 AM PDT
by
malakhi
(Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.)
To: malakhi
I kind of liked the felt banners. NOT!!!
I start to froth when I think of CCD in the 70s and some stuff escapes me. Thanks for the reminder!
To: sinkspur
Baloney!
19
posted on
09/09/2003 6:31:03 AM PDT
by
BlackElk
(Lakota Nation never legalized abortion, except the post-natal kind for Custer.)
To: sinkspur; ninenot; Polycarp; Kevin Curry; Desdemona; american colleen; saradippity; sittnick
I had forgotten: Good morning: Deacon!
Is that what Delaney is waiting for or Roger Cardinal McPhony in LA? Weakland would have cracked down but he did not perceive a signal from the Vatican? Bernardin would not have had his estate pay to have his funeral music provided by the "Windy City Gay Men's Chorus" if only the Vatican had signalled disapproval of the love that once dared not speak its name? Cardinal Law would have been a champion of the Faith but he did not get a telegram? Pilarczyk and Pilla just did not get the chance to be Catholic because the mail didn't arrive? Puhleeeze!!!!!!
Furthermore, it is up to the ordinary of the diocese to clean his own house. As Catholics, we have a tradition of subsidiarity expecting the power to be exercised as close to the scene of the evil as feasible. The Vatican is doing its job by replacing the cowards and apostates with Catholic bishops. The Vatican's problem was in allowing organized leftists to influence the choice of bishops in years past. Let the games begin. Let the purge be thorough. Let the thumbs be turned downwards and let us hear the last of Kumbaya "Catholicism" and of AmChurch.
20
posted on
09/09/2003 6:40:11 AM PDT
by
BlackElk
(Lakota Nation never legalized abortion, except the post-natal kind for Custer.)
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