Replies

Both sides here are guilty.

Such a statement creates an appearance of even-handedness, but misses the reality. Most of the statements in your post were on target, but I'd like to see some documenation of this claim:

The extreme trads who reject NFP out of hand are wrong. It is morally licit in certain grave circumstances.

Where are these "extreme trads"? I have never seen 1 single post ever on FR which claimed that NFP was not "morally licit in certain grave circumstances." Nor have I ever seen such a claim in any traditional publication like Latin Mass magazine or The Remnant. As far as I am aware, every traditionalist I have ever read has emphasized the need for "grave reasons."

In contrast to the dearth of "extreme trads" claiming what you say they do, Chris Ferrara wrote an article not long ago in which he documented many of the absurd claims being made by the NFP promotion people. There are many, many examples of non-traditional Catholics who promote:
- NFP for any reason,
- who claim that NFP is superior,
- who claim that NFP is necessary for true "personalist" marriage,
- who claim the requirement of grave reasons no longer applies,
- who claim that those who accept children from God are "providentialists"
- who claim that conceiving children without using NFP is "less than human" and "animal-like."

So it's not really even-handed to equate a non-existent error that's wholly imaginary with an entire industry promoting the opposite error.

Max,

Note this additional post that now appears at the blog. I guess that anyone who doubts a brother should be charting his sister is an anti-Semite. The cradle-to-grave-NFP Cult is apperently using the neo-con playbook, even if the attacks make absolutely know sense. There will be no "Charitable Language" reported over there.

http://www.splendoroftruth.com/curtjester/archives/003953.php#003953

Say, isn't Solomon one of those, you know, Joooooooos? Proof that the neo-Catholic neo-Conservatives are giving in to the Zionist Sexually-driven degenerate kultur! Why, just the other day they were taking totally uncalled for potshots at G. Uatta Joke's SexDiatribe Magazine, because Joke was quoting Mein Kampf, but notice that they did not REFUTE anything in Mein Kampf, simply writing it off as "conspiracy" material.

That is a typical ploy of Jooish NeoConNeoCatholics: write off the source without arguing to the point and then accusing anyone who wants to argue to the point a "conspiracy monger." So just ask them who this Solomon was and how his little smut song got into the Bible! See what they tell you. They will call you all sorts of names, but will not address the meat of Hitler's book!

Meanwhile, I will stick to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion to learn what is really going on. And of course anything that comes from Tradition, Property, and Reich! You can't trust anything else. Even Mel Gibson is to be considered questionable, as he admitted to having Joo friends.

If only we could go back to the 1950's when the mass was perfect all the time and every child had a full-color lithograph prayer card of the Sacred Heart pinned to his forehead!

Posted by: RadTradDaddy on August 22, 2003 08:10 PM

" who claim that conceiving children without using NFP is "less than human" and "animal-like."

Sheesh...These particular NFP individuals are directly insulting the Sacrament of Matrimony...that isn't going to get anyone closer to heaven.

It's starting to scare me that the faith is getting so twisted by those who claim an educated pose.

Where are these "extreme trads"? I have never seen 1 single post ever on FR which claimed that NFP was not "morally licit in certain grave circumstances." Nor have I ever seen such a claim in any traditional publication like Latin Mass magazine or The Remnant. As far as I am aware, every traditionalist I have ever read has emphasized the need for "grave reasons."

I'm not going to spend my time looking it up, but I have seen extreme trads here (HDMZ? UR? I can't recall) and elsewhere dismiss the entire NFP concept as an evil invention of Paul VI and a grave departure from prior Church teaching.

Here's an example:

From http://www.trosch.org/chu/nfp.html

Due to the many inquires regarding why Human Life Foundation, Father Paul Marx, and the Couple to Couple League are listed on the Web page entitled, Anti-Catholic "Catholic" organizations and publications, I have prepared this response. It should be understood that anyone acting in opposition to the creative act and intent of God is not only offensive to God but also against the ultimate good of mankind.

At 11:19 AM 10/2/1998 -0400, you wrote: I'm absolutely astounded by your list. Why would you put HLI on the list? I'm open to hearing your answer.--Lorraine

Fr. Marx promotes the "contraceptive mentality." A grave sin which is equated with sodomy. The "contraceptive mentality" goes directly against the prime commandment, "Be fertile and multiply." — fr. david