Catholicism-Isn't That a Gay Thing?

Asia Times ^ | August 22, 2003 | Spengler

[sydney smith]

This is an interesting article.

[Salvation]

**In the United States, the most likely outcome will be the strengthening of the heterosexual (that is, Evangelical) wing of US Christianity at the expense of the Catholics and other liberal Christians.**

I don't think so. I think it will result in the strenthening of the orthdox (more traditional) teachings in the United States. (Those in line with the Holy See, that is.)

[Onelifetogive]

"Studies suggest that perhaps 30-50 percent of priests (especially those under 50) are homosexual in orientation, compared with about 5 percent in the population at large," writes Professor Donald Cozzens of John Carroll University.

Anyone familiar with this source. Is John Carroll Univ. Cathlolic?

[Diago]

John Carroll is an extremely left-wing Jesuit university. Not unlike Georgetown. Cozzens is a VOTF/Futurechurch liberal who is pushing an agenda of married priests.

[Diago]

A founder of Futurechurch, Father Trivison, review Cozzens book here:

http://www.futurechurch.org/newsletter/fall02/silence.htm

[sydney smith]

Rev. Donald Cozzens, a Catholic priest who wrote a book entitled "The Changing Face of the Priesthood" estimated, by his research, the number of gay priests at present to be 40-60%. Interesting book. Also somewhat depressing.

[tiki]

I would argue with the numbers who don't believe in Transubstantiation. I know a lot of people who would say they are Catholic though they never took First Communion or went through Confirmation and don't know where the Church is much less what its beliefs are. I want a survey that is done at parishes on a Sunday Morning before I'll believe that

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Maybe there is a correlation between Church attendance and belief in the Real Presence(i.e., those who don't believe don't attend frequently)?

[ThomasMore]

Anyone familiar with this source. Is John Carroll Univ. Catholic?

Don't know about John Carroll University. However, Fr. Cozzens numbers should probably be cut in half. Reason being, the actual number of gays in the general population are between 2 and 2.5%. And even those are inflated and generous numbers. So I would estimate from this that 15 to 25% of the priesthood is gay. That's way bad enough!

[jocon307]

"No criticism will be forthcoming from the rest of Europe, whose male population sincerely hopes that all Swedish men (but not women) will become homosexual."

LOL, excellent post sydney!

Just what I like, a great snappy joke in the middle of a truly cuttingly insightful article.

This one made my day! And it's good to know the priests in Europe still haven't gone gay, as few of them as there maybe today. Ok, I rhymed, but only because this article amused my mind so very much.

[tiki]

No, its more like 10th generation Americans calling themselves German, Italian, African. They've never lived there, they don't know the language, geography or customs but they still think of themselves in that identity.

[Desdemona]

Well, since John Carroll was the first archbishop of the US, you'd think so, but it's run by the Jesuits.

[narses]

Ping.

[Dajjal]

Why do American homosexuals gravitate toward the priesthood, but not Irishmen or Poles?

Maybe it's because when Good Men consider or enter the seminary, the entrenched Lavender Lobby drives them away!

[sydney smith]

Read Fr. Cozzens book, it's not long and is recent. The estimate was made on research he conducted, not just a guess. It's scary and is consistent with the story told in "Goodbye, Good Men".

[ThomasMore]

There are others who have done research as well. Cozzens research shows high numbers, other show low. Research into the homosexual population gives us CONSERVATIVE figures of 2 to 2.5% in the general population. That's half of what Cozzens estimates. Based on this he may be too high for those figures he states about the priesthood. His figures are the highest I've seen.

Regardless of what the figures...1% is too high.

[Front 242]

In May 2002, I attempted to enter the seminary of my local diocese here in Florida. At the time, I was 33 years old and had entertained the idea of entering the priesthood since age 14 or so. I am a heterosexual male and attested to that fact in my application for the diocese. I also made the comment to one of the questions asked in the application ("What concerns, if any, do you have regarding the Roman Catholic Priesthood?"), that I felt that the priesthood "had become a bastion for homosexuals". When the appointed time came for me to go before the review board for the diocese, while sitting amongst the group of other applicants (approximately six or seven other young men), a very curious thing happened to me. Not more than 20 to 30 minutes after having sat down at the table to await my turn to be interviewed before the diocese review board, I had an applicant sitting to my immediate left make a homosexual pass at me. This pass was made out of view of the other candidates and consisted of the candidate placing his foot on top of my foot underneath the table. When I eased back in my chair to wonder why this guy had put his foot on top of my foot, I glanced over at him and he was giving me a seductive look. I glared back at him and slid my foot out from under his. Loh and behold, not more than a couple of minutes later, another guy entered the room where we were waiting and struck up an animated conversation with the candidate who had just made the pass on me. The new guy who had just entered the room was a current seminarian for the diocese and just radiated "queerness". As it turns out, these guys both knew each other through the diocese's vocational director, and upon inquiring further from them, the guy who made the pass at me was currently staying at the vocational director's apartment. Apparently, this guy had been sponsored via the vocational director to fly in from California / Hawaii (I can't remember which state) and was currently living with the vocational director and had been employed by him to do "odd jobs" and stuff around the church that the vocational director was pastor of. As it turns out, the guy who made the pass at me was accepted and I in turn was given the run around as to why I was not accepted into the seminary. I had mentioned that I was interested in the Franciscans as well, but the repeated attempts to garner any reason as to why I was being given the "brush off" were to no avail via the vocational director. Subsequent and repeated inquiries have resulted in ambiguous answers or walls of silence. I have been in a funk over this matter since my meeting with the review board took place in May 2002. I was as honest and sincere as possible in filling out my application, even mentioning that in the past, I had been treated for clinical depression and was taking Prozac for it and that I felt in no way would it be a hiderance to my application for the priesthood. I explaine that it is an inherited chemical imbalance that runs in my family and I manage the best that I can with it. I feel that combined with that truthful revelation, as well as my stance on homosexuals in the priesthood, in addition to the absurdity of the process of meeting with the diocese's review board psychologist (total Freudian bullsh*t all the way ... "Tell me, what do you see on this inkblot card"), has left me quite bitter. I still feel a deep desire to enter the priesthood, but under the current circumstances in regard to who is in control of allowing / disallowing potential candidates to enter the priesthood, the system is very flawed. One thing that I have learned out of all of this is that if the vocational director (i.e. "the gatekeeper") is queer, and you are a heterosexual and orthodox applicant, you have a very, very slim chance of getting into the seminary. On the other hand, if you are a homosexual, and you are discrete (i.e. lie or "don't ask and don't tell") about it, you have a pretty good chance of getting in. Once in, you have joined the "Lavender Club" and thus become a participant in the takeover of the Catholic Priesthood. As a footnote to all of this, I read Michael Rose's "Goodbye, Good Men" after all of this transpired and was just amazed at the similarities of the recounted stories in his book with my own experience. May God have mercy on the current state of the Roman Catholic Priesthood. Please pray for me. Thanks for your time. Sincerely, Front 242.

[Tantumergo]

"And it's good to know the priests in Europe still haven't gone gay"

The article is too optimistic on this point. The gay plague has hit Europe as well - just not to the extent that it has in the US.

England has at least one gay bishop and some of the Roman seminaries are cesspits of sodomites.

There are powerful forces at work in the Vatican (with the support of some US bishops) who are trying to prevent the CDF cracking down on admissions of homosexuals to the priesthood.

If the document isn't released before Ratzinger retires then it will probably be killed off.

While I hope Thomas More is right about the figures being inflated, I fear that the sodomites are very well entrenched, and very organised.

[It's me]

Go to Denver or any of the other conservative diocese. Please do NOT give up. We need good priests. And I thank you for answering His call.

[JNB]

I agree with the other poster, do not give up, whatever you do. I pray the FSSP seminary gets the new dorms up and running soon to accomodate men such as you. Also, check into other diocese that have solid vocations programs such as Newark NJ, I even heard good things about the Washington DC archdiocese, as poster sitetest can attest to.