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To: TexasRepublic
I look forward to reading this. I don't know if I will agree, but I want to make this comment prior to reading it.

The two propositions "that salvation can be found outside Christianity" and that "no one comes to the Father, except by Him" might not conflict. (Incidentally, the former is theological speculation; the latter is Biblical truth and thus ABSOLUTELY INCONTESTABLE, period).

Remember, those that are saved are saved as a result of the Son choosing them and intervening on their behalf to the Father. The Son chooses who will be saved, period.

And of course those that are saved are saved by the work of the Son. That is also incontestable and can't be negotiable.

That said, is it possible that those who are outside "Christianity" - which I would say would be those who do not cognitively honor Christ as Lord and Saviour - have been saved by the Son?

I think that Romans 1 gives some latitude for speculation in that regard, as some know a little about God, but reject Him. They are thus blameworthy...might it also be true that there might be some who know a little about God and seek him ever more, within the limits of their culture? Perhaps so. If that is the case, then there might be some who are saved by Christ, but without their acknowledging Him (at least until the moment when salvation becomes relevant, namely, at death).

I would add that anyone who expressly denies the Son (and/or the Trinity) can not be saved, by my reading of Scripture. So the category of those whom this idea could affect is quite small, perhaps, even, nonexistent.

Again, I don't know the answer to this, but I would suggest that the statements already given may not be completely opposed...
6 posted on 08/21/2003 9:21:01 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: ConservativeDude
Actually Jesus said that those who God The Father have given Him (God the Son) will not be lost


7 posted on 08/21/2003 9:29:35 AM PDT by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: ConservativeDude
I agree, but ROMANS makes it tough for those not covered by CHRIST'S BLOOD since all have sinned.What about those millions NEVER exposed to the gospel before and after CHRIST incarnation?I know some speculate HE descended into HELL to witness to them.And do we go directly to HEAVEN or HELL when we die,or are we in a holding place until THE SECOND COMING?
9 posted on 08/21/2003 9:48:08 AM PDT by y2k_free_radical (i)
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To: ConservativeDude; RnMomof7; CCWoody; MarMema; RussianConservative
Remember, those that are saved are saved as a result of the Son choosing them and intervening on their behalf to the Father. The Son chooses who will be saved, period.

No. It is the Father who predestines.

The Son willingly and gladly takes all whom the Father gives to Him. He has already paid their blood price.

Sorry to be contrary but this is something I notice increasingly. Many Christian teachers in the modern era try to virtually remove the Father from any role whatsoever and inflate the mystery of the Holy Spirit in strange and unorthodox ways.
14 posted on 08/21/2003 10:01:04 AM PDT by George W. Bush
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