Replies

Dave,
Save your silly insults for some other potential convert. Your reliance on writings that have always been in question and clearly do not align themselves with the central theme of the Bible (Which is Christ) leaves with little more than a mystical cult like religion. You are highly steeped in tradition that has gone on for ages and apparently gets accepted simply because you have always done it.
I asked you to provide another example from Jesus' teaching to support this concept of repentance in proxy and all you can do is throw back insults. Why, because there is no example of Christ allowing for someone repentance in proxy. The whole of scripture speaks against the concept but somehow because you guys hang on to a questionable writing you think that the balance of scripture should be thrown out to allow for your crazy concept. Well go ahead with your heresy it is no concern of mine. As far as Pastor across the street goes he is no different than any other Orthodox minister or layperson I have met, they simple do not evangelize. It seems that for the most part you guys seem to have a Hyper-Calvinist view and that if God wants you to be saved than you will come to Church on your own.
While I applaud your efforts in Albania and Indonesia, you can't possible believe that compared to the evangelism done by the protestant and catholic churches over the last 500 years even to this present day that the soul winning efforts of the Orthodox church are much of a priority. Evangelism in those of those of us who are not orthodox is our highest priority and if your spiritual leaders are taught how to be discerning enough to avoid spiritual dregs like myself, shame on you for Christ came for the spiritually sick (Matt 9:12, Mk 2:17,Lk 5:31).
Again I ask you, since you are so enlightened, to explain how your verse in Maccabbees jives with what Paul writes in Romans 9 especially with verses 27 and 28.

23It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. 25Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Good Luck,
Boiler Plate

On the one hand, the sacrifices of the Old Covenant were ordained and commanded by God, on the other, they are imperfect and worthless in comparison to Christ's saving Death and Resurrection, of which they were a type or prefiguration.

The blood sacrifice of the Old Covenant is abolished, but the bloodless sacrifice of the Eucharist continues, making present for the Faithful the very Body and Blood of Christ. The offering of blood sacrifices by Judas Macabbeus on behalf of the fallen prefigures the prayers of the Church for the departed which are offered at every Liturgy, and privately by the faithful.

I repeat, the so called Aprocrypha was always part of the canon from the time it was fixed. Neither you nor I nor the 'reformers' have nor had any authority to remove it. There was always a tradition of not interpreting one passage of Scripture in a way contrary to other passages. The fact that reading the Scriptures outside their natural setting in the life of the Church, you can't find a way to interpret the Books of the Macabbees or Judith so as not to be repugnant to your interpretation of other passages suggests a flaw in your interpretation of the passages or your entire hermeneutic. The Fathers found no contradiction, nor do I. The "doubt" about their status arose not from doctrinal contradictions, but from St. Jerome's erroneous preference for the Masorete (which unknown to him was not a Hebrew ur-text, but a redaction of the Jewish Scriptures made by Christ-denying rabbis) over the Septuagint. I repeat again, the entire Septuagint was accepted as Holy Scripture by all Christians whether Orthodox, Arian, Nestorian, monophysite or Latin until Luther. The only ones to question these writings prior to Luther were the Christ-denying Jews of the Council of Jamnia. If you prefer their judgment to that of the Holy Ecumenical Councils, that is your business, but I certainly do not, nor did any Christians before Luther (even St. Jerome only suggested the books in the Septuagint without corresponding books in the Masorete were less important, not erroneous).

As to evangelization: If you want to stretch the time horizon back 500 years, I would certainly add for the Orthodox the conversion of the native peoples of Siberia and Alaska, and the establishment of the Orthodox Church of Japan (St. Nicholas of Japan's manual for evangelization procedures is, I am told, used by protestants now). Of course, you might still complain: many in Alaska attribute their ancestor's conversion to St. Herman, who lived as a hermit on Spruce Island, hardly a vigorous program of evangelization in the sense the word is usually used by protestants. A lot of evangelization by the Orthodox looks like living holy lives, not like preaching.

Bolier Plate,

"I asked you to provide another example from Jesus' teaching to support this concept of repentance in proxy and all you can do is throw back insults. Why, because there is no example of Christ allowing for someone repentance in proxy..."

I'm not sure what you mean by repentence by proxy. If you are refering to the sacrement of confession (repentence), below is the proper scripture from the Gospel of St. John, chapter 20 (these events occured just after Christ was crucified):

19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost [Spirit]:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Hope this helps.

In Christ,
Reader John