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To: P-Marlowe
What is it about the word simultaneous that is so complicated for you?

Logical order
Logical order
Logical order
Logical order
Logical order
Logical order

Before AND After miss the point.
199 posted on 08/16/2003 10:27:41 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej

Logical order
Logical order
Logical order
Logical order
Logical order
Logical order


I would argue that from a logical perspective as well as a biblical perspective the exercise of Faith must come first. In the absence of our justification we are separated from God by our sins. We are justified by our faith, but our justification comes from Jesus completed sacrifice on the cross. Thus until we exercise the faith, we cannot be justified. So there is a temporal order. We certainly cannot be justified without exercising faith, but we can exercise faith without first being justified. Abraham's model makes it clear that the justification is the result of the exercise of faith and certainly not vice-versa.
So the only question is at what point do we become born again?

Once again since our sins separate us from God, the recreation of our spirit cannot occur until after we have been justified, as God cannot indwell us unless we are perfect in his eyes. And that perfection is the result of our justification, not by any works that we do.

Hence both temporally and logically the order is:

1) Faith
2) Justification
3) Regeneration

While it all may occur in the twinkling of an eye, the idea that we could be regenerated without first having both faith and justification would mean that there really is no separation of man from God because of sin. That would mean that God could and does bridge the gap without the cross and that unforgiven sin is therefore no obstacle to our fellowship with God.

You never repsonded to this post before, so I am reposting it now. Any response?
207 posted on 08/16/2003 10:49:31 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (Milquetoast Q. Whitebread is alive!)
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