If being born again means that we are born from above or born of God, then the new creation occurs in eternity as that is where God dwells.
Isa 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy...
Do you assume that God lives in a temporal universe? Do you assume that God is trapped in the same time dimension as man? Is God's existence linear or is it infinite? Is it temporal or is it eternal?
BTW you ignored the essence of my post and instead changed the subject to concentrate on that which is essentially irrelevant to the question posed.
Why was the cross necessary if God is able to regenerate man and give him his new birth in Christ before he repents and believes? Indeed, you Calvinists believe that Man must first be born again before he can repent and believe, hence repentance and belief are totally irrelevant to salvation. Repentance and belief then become the byproducts of Salvation rather then the other way around. No matter how you look at it there is a temporal order. The Arminians make the cross the focal point of salvation. The Calvinists make the cross redundant.
No. Arminians make "free-will" the focal point of salvation.
After all, Christ may have died for "everybody", but without man's "free-will" decision to accept Christ, the cross would have been for nothing.
"Free-Will" is the entire focal point of the Arminian Philosophical Paradigm. So much so, that in order to up-hold "Free-Will", Arminians must redefine God's omniscience to be "Open" or "Middle Knowledge" in order to be consistent. The crucial doctrines of the Atonement, Justification and Grace are also re-defined in order to make them consistent with their "free-will".
As an Arminian friend of mine recently told me, "If God foreknows everything, then "free-will" is a sham." (He's a good Wesleyan, afterall) To him, "free-will" was the issue. He never mentioned the cross to me. It took my reminding him of the Biblical fact that Christ's work of the cross were forordained (he disagreed) and that those who physically carried out Christ's murder were viewed to be "evil". He responded by claiming that God didn't know the specifics of who would kill Jesus on the cross, but that he knew "generally" what would happen.
Jean
Actually Steve I believe that it is Arminians that make the cross of no effect. Jesus died without saving anyone. For al he knew no one beside the thief would come to Paradise.
The cross was not effective unless men chose it
Calvinists on the other hand believe that God ordains the means and the method
There was a covenant between Jesus and the Father that Jesus would come and save the men that the Father ordained to save.
Jesus was foreordained as the means to satisfy Gods wrath, Gods Justice demanded payment for the offense. The only one that could satisfy Gods wrath was God Himself
Typical of men , they think the cross is all about them . Jesus died because of the father's wrath not because any man deserved it
This plan was put in place before the foundation of the world
1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Before The foundation of the earth was laid God and Jesus agreed on the method of the satisfaction of mans offense against the holiness of God
God then ordained a people on which to receive His forgiveness through the blood of Christ
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Jesus because of the covenant with the Father became a propitiation for the sins of these men
Jhn 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
It is sad that some men think that the cross is all about men and fail to see it is all about God and his righteousness, not them
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
They see it's value only in how it affects them That is the Pride of Life .