[StAthanasiustheGreat]

Vatican II accomplished some good, though in the negatives definitly outweight the positives. I think Paul VI summed it up best, "The Devil is in the Church, smoke is around the altar."

But the heresy was already in the Church. Liberation Theology (Marxism) was in the Church prior to Vatican II, Piux XII constantly was battling these heretical theologians, one of them, a Jesuit named Jean Baptiste Hilfert (I think), led Pius XII to exclaim, "I want Jean Baptiste's head on a plate."

[Maximilian]

a Jesuit named Jean Baptiste Hilfert (I think), led Pius XII to exclaim, "I want Jean Baptiste's head on a plate."

Good story. But the point is that if Pius XII wanted his head on a plate, he would have gotten it. Many theologians were censured during the 1950's. Encyclicals were written (e.g. Mediator Dei) which condemned specific propositions of the liberals. Individuals were forbidden to teach and write.

Then almost without exception, every theologian who had been condemned under Pius XII was made a peritus at Vatican II by John XXIII or Paul VI. What does this tell you about the scope of the plan and whether the popes were helpless victims?

[BlackElk]

Jean Baptiste Janssens, the "Black Pope" or Jesuit Superior General from the death of the masterful Fr. Vlodcharsky (sp.?) in about 1944 to Janssens' death in about 1962 and the election of to the ridiculous enemy of all things truly Catholic Father Pedro Arrupe.

The Pius XII quote is, according to Cardinal Bea, SJ, through Fr. Malachi Martin: Quite often in crises, Pius XII would turn to his inner circle and say: Bring me the head of John the Baptist (referencing Janssens).