Author Kenneth Jones Provides Statistical Evidence of Post-Vatican II Decline in the Catholic Church

Catholic Citizens News Service ^ | 8/12/2003 | Karl Maurer

[Land of the Irish]

Jones concludes that the Second Vatican Council wasn’t so much a spark that lit a dry forest, but a force that broke a dam which held back oceans of dissent and heresy. The application of the reform of Vatican II says Jones, combined with the social and technological changes going on in the world, has been a complete disaster.

[Land of the Irish]

Ping

[Maximilian]

Jones believes, as do many Catholics, that the Second Vatican Council and the implementation of various reforms immediately following that Council are directly responsible. “No reasonable person looking at the evidence could come to any other conclusion. The beginning of the declines in all categories commences after the Council, and it’s been all down hill since.”

This is what the supporters of Vatican II fear the most: facts. They are only able to exist in a fantasy world; in the real world everything is the opposite of what they claim. A simple dose of reality is the most powerful antidote to bromides about the "new springtime of the Faith."

[RobbyS]

a dam which held back oceans of dissent and heresy. Presupposes, dos it not, many dissenters and heretics "in the closet"?

[sinkspur]

These stats get posted every three or four months by the trads.

Just an excuse to bash the Novus Ordo and Vatican II. Same old, same old.

Good luck at getting much interest. In case you trads hadn't noticed, there's a BOYCOTT of you guys going on.

These threads are boring, boring, boring.

[sitetest]

Maximilian,

Don't ping me anymore. Most of this is regurgitated cr*p. If I wanted to rehash the excuses of schismatics for the nth time, I'd join in on these junk threads.

sitetest

[Land of the Irish]

In case you trads hadn't noticed, there's a BOYCOTT of you guys going on.

Again! Maybe this one will last longer than 48 hours.

P.S. Are you now a trad, sinkspur? If not, why aren't you joining the boycott?

[Notwithstanding]

And I thought it was my birth in the 1960's - or the Beatles, or Viet Nam, or (fill in the blank any event that occurred in the 1960's) - that caused all this. All these things happened to coincide with the start of the decline.

[ultima ratio]

Boycott away. You guys are boring anyway--how can you be otherwise, committed as you are to keeping your heads in the sand?

[ultima ratio]

This is actually funny. You sound pretty testy. Getting to you guys with the truth, are we?

[sitetest]

Dear ultima,

"This is actually funny. You sound pretty testy. Getting to you guys with the truth, are we?"

HAHAHAHA!!! You tell yourself that.

Listen, we've all tried our darndest to enlightened those of you who wander in the darkness. And some of the folks did a really nice job, like patent and others.

But, you know, after the fifteenth time, or thirtieth time, or sixty-fifth time, it just isn't any fun anymore. In fact, it becomes downright, psychopathologically boring.

That you guys persist doesn't say much for your sanity.

All I want is off the cr*p schismatic thread ping list, that's all.

But be assured, I'm still praying for you.


sitetest

[sitetest]

Dear sinkspur,

So howdja like my thesis on why Arnold joined the Republicans?


sitetest

[boromeo]

"A dam which held back oceans of dissent and heresy. Presupposes, does it not, many dissenters and heretics "in the closet"?

Leo XIII didn't invent Modernism. It's well known that the ground work for the Council was laid by Pius XII. When it hit, there were tens of thousands of priests who were on board before the ink was dry thanks to heretical seminaries that would have made even Michael Rose cringe...

[Antoninus]

From 1920 to 2000, the Catholic population in America grew from around 18 million to over 60 million.

Let's see... 80% of 18 million in 1920 attended Mass each week. That's 15.4 million attendees in 1920.

Meanwhile, 25% of 60 million attend in 2000. That's ca. 15 million. Pretty sobering statistic if you ask me.

Some would argue that the Church would be in even worse shape if it were not for Vatican II. That may actually be true for the rest of the world. Unfortunately here in the US and Europe, VII was used as an excuse to let bloom the weeds of heresy that had lain dormant. What we need are a sequence of Popes who aren't afraid to break out the "Hot Shot."

[Antoninus]

These threads are boring, boring, boring.

You're a funny guy. Not too long ago, when people were making claims that the orthodox orders and dioceses are where the vocations were, you demanded evidence. Well, this article is full of such evidence and you pronounce it "boring."

Not too terribly surprising, really.

[TradicalRC]

It is remarkably similar to the debates on the left throughout the twentieth century. Was communism itself to blame or was it merely the abuse of rogue personalities? When the first disillusioned ex-communists surfaced they were vilified and often assassinated. It wasn't until abuse piled on abuse that the light slowly filtered through the cracks. Time will tell...

[sinkspur]

Well, Arnold joined the Republican Party when he was first eligible to vote, which was back in the 70s.

But, your point is well taken about why he remained in the party and why he would run as a Republican.

He's gonna win that race, you know.

[dsc]

"In case you trads hadn't noticed, there's a BOYCOTT of you guys going on."

Thank you, sir. May I have another?

[ultima ratio]

Enlighten us? For that you would need a few fresh ideas. I can believe, however, that it was no fun anymore. Defeat is never easy.

[dsc]

I can't think of anything that illustrates that so well as my daughter's experiences.

I started taking her to a liberal Japanese parish when she was about 11, and that was her first exposture to Catholicism.

Then, starting when she was 12, she went to the 7th and 8th grade at the Visitation Academy, where the Sisters did a bang-up job of catechising her. In addition, (daily) Masses at the Chapel were very reverent, with Rosaries beforehand. Mother Marguerite said she had a "beautiful faith," and I had to agree.

Coming back to Japan, she was absolutely repelled at the goings on at the same liberal Japanese parish. Now I can hardly get her to go.