To: Cvengr
I also discern many events surrounding and directly associated with Calvin as grossly un or anti-Christian. I wonder how much of your "discernment" is based upon reality in the 21st century without considering the reality of the 16th century? Since heresy was considered a crime punishable by death in 16th century Europe is your 21st century perception of governments role in Church matters really that relevant? It seems to me that you could blame God for requiring Moses and Joshua to dash the children of their enemies to death.
Frankly, this is a problem I see with many of the churchmen of the independent fundamentalist persuasion. You want to be able to interpret the bible and history based on your 21st century eyes without considering the relevant historical conditions that manifest what actions were taken in history. The result is not only a poor biblical hermenutic but also a poor historical hermeneutic.
To: lockeliberty
I wonder how much of your "discernment" is based upon reality in the 21st century without considering the reality of the 16th century? Moral relativism? The truth does not change with time and if Calvin was so 'holy', he would have not conspired nor orchestrated the murder of an innocent man.
To: lockeliberty
When it comes to Scripture and obedience to Him, I don't believe the issues are so relativistic.
With respect to dashing babies against the rocks, I understand How God gave direction to Israel to destroy their enemies entirely and I believe the lineage of those that were not destroyed, later became a persistent enemy of Israel. Accordingly, I learn that we are to obey Him even if we think our good is better,...all the more reason to question our doubt in Him.
But my point regarded torture and vengeance. I don't recall anywhere in Scripture where God tortures, other than a byproduct of eternal separation from God.
For this reason, if torture occurred to Servetus, even in his capital sentencing and execution, I would expect the justification to be as noteworthy as the publicity of the torture,...if it were indeed righteous.
Do you know of anywhere else in Scripture where God tortures as disctinctive or not confused with Divine Discipline or punishment?
147 posted on
08/11/2003 6:48:59 PM PDT by
Cvengr
(0;^))
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