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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity; saradippity; Alberta's Child; Aloysius; AniGrrl; Bellarmine; ...
When was the last time the Vatican Council II, itself, was quoted as the reason for the radical changes?

It's always been this mythical "Spirit of Vatican Council II".

The council was concluded December 8, 1965; but this mythical spirit continues to mutate to suit the individual user's needs.

I challenge anyone to show me a Novus Ordo Mass that is currently being celebrated in exactly the same way a Novus Ordo Mass was celebrated in 1966.

91 posted on 08/01/2003 6:00:55 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: Land of the Irish
Well, apparently, there are liberal groups who claim that this is all still "evolving" and that there are yet further stages for changing and minimalizing the Mass into the participatory congregational People's Assembly. In other words, we still haven't really gotten to what Vatican II actually calls for (whatever that may mean). This cult known as "Renew" seems to be part of this fuzzy, vague liturgical gnosticism revolution. Well, if the goofy crap we've all seen for the last 30 odd years was not really the real Vatican II Mass, what on earth was it?

The implication is that there is some unwritten blueprint for the church which only the esoteric elite of liberal liturgists understand. In other words, something other than official conciliar documents. The USCCB proceedings work in a similar way - they interpret what "norms" should be construed from "the Spirit of Vatican II." The disappearance of crucifixes and the moving of tabernacles are in the same spirit of innovative "interpretation." It's a little like the liberal Supreme Court inventing rights and laws.

92 posted on 08/01/2003 6:25:02 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Land of the Irish
The council was concluded December 8, 1965; but this mythical spirit continues to mutate to suit the individual user's needs.

The "spirit" is there in documents such as Gaduium et Spes, Dignitatus Humanae, Nosrae Aetate, and Unitas Redintegratio. If not explicitly, then at least implicitly.

I challenge anyone to show me a Novus Ordo Mass that is currently being celebrated in exactly the same way a Novus Ordo Mass was celebrated in 1966.

The Novus Ordo Mass was not finished until 1967 and not promulgated until 1969. They are extremely rare, but there do exist some novus ordo masses celebrated according to the rubrics. In New York I know of several. I have yet to find one in the Boston area.

257 posted on 08/02/2003 3:59:30 PM PDT by traditionalist
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