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To: CARepubGal; Hermann the Cherusker; MarMema
For the next four decades, until his death, Einstein struggled to develop a Unified Theory of Existence based on his earlier speculations. -- He could have saved himself a lot of trouble by accepting that the Lord Jesus is the reality of existence - no theory needed. ~~ Hermann the Cherusker

That is far too simple a solution (pride is one of the 7 deadly sins you know) ~~ CARepubGal

As for myself -- I happen to disagree, my sister. I think that you are wrong; and I think that Hermann is right.

In this matter, I must affirm the virtuous Scientific Rigor of Medieval Christendom. It is a matter of Publik Skool Falsehood that the Roman Catholic Age was a "Dark Age"... in fact, the Roman Catholic Age in Europe did not hinder the Scientific Revolution, but rather set the stage therefore.

And I should further note, against all the claims of Islam ~~ Islam never accomplished anything of any value. The truth of the matter is, the Crusaders (who fought a legitimate Defensive War, according to a certain interpretation; though some committed War-Crimes) brought back to Europe the Wisdom of the Assyrian Orthodox and the Chaldean Catholics.

NONE of this Wisdom is the Heritage of Islam -- NONE of it. Arabic numerals, Geometry, Algebra ~~ ALL of this is the Heritage of the Assyrian Orthodox and the Chaldean Catholics. All of it.

The Muslims merely usurped their heritage. And the Crusaders brought it back to Europe.

I am still, myself, trying to make sense of it all -- because the Truth of the Matter, is that Protestantism siezed upon the Roman Catholic tradition, and exceeded all heights of human imagination: the German Lutherans, the British Anglicans, the American Calvinists -- these Societies have far surpassed all previous measures of calculation in Trade and Treasure and Conquest and Scientific Advancement and World Dominance.

All the Promised Dominion of Solomon has been given, world-wide, unto the Protestant Religion. And yet, like Solomon, we have very nearly thrown it all away. Plus ca change...

We live... in interesting times. Best, OP

439 posted on 12/07/2003 11:38:44 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; CARepubGal
And yet...we have very nearly thrown it all away.

Thanks to the influences of Pelagius, Arminius, De Molina and Wesley...not to mention Schuller and Graham.

"Can't we all just get along?"

440 posted on 12/08/2003 12:12:35 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; CARepubGal; MarMema
The truth of the matter is, the Crusaders (who fought a legitimate Defensive War, according to a certain interpretation; though some committed War-Crimes)

The Crusaders were basically brought in by the Roman Emperor to take back Iconium and the surrounding area of Cappadocia from the Rum Seljuk Turks. They did exactly what they were supposed too by sacking Iconium, but the Greeks were unable to follow up and actually hold on to this are so as to reverse Mazinkert for the Empire. The Crusaders then went on to liberate Edessa and Antioch, Lebanon and Jerusalem. Had the Papal Legate not unfortunately died before the Empire could reestablish authority in these places, its unlikely they would have become the petty feudal states of Outremer, and its unlikely the Patriarchl incumbents would have been given the right foot of fellowship by the Normans to be replaced by Latin Patriarchs. Thus, no finalization of the East-West schism.

brought back to Europe the Wisdom of the Assyrian Orthodox and the Chaldean Catholics.

Glad you recognize who the literate, mercantile class was. The Assyrian Orthodox and Chaldean Catholics are one and the same people though. Perhaps you meant the Syrian Orthodox (Jacobite)? The Assyrians/Chaldeans were part of the Catholic Church of the East, which then stretched from Jerusalem to Java and Japan with something like 80-90 million adherents. The sad remnant today after the massacres of Tamurlane and his desertification of Central Asia is the 5 million Thomas Christians of India and the 1.5 million Assyrians and Chaldeans in Iran, Iraq, and Syria.

The Arabs are honest enough to admit that what we call "Arabic" numerals are really "Indian" numerals, meaning Perso-Aryan.

The Muslims merely usurped their heritage. And the Crusaders brought it back to Europe.

The only reason it had to be brought back to Europe was the Muslim depredations follwoing AD 697 (loss of Africa and Numidia by the Roman Empire). Following the fall of Spain due to the revolt of the local Hispano-Roman Christian and Jewish population against the Visigoths, and with the gradual capture of the Meditteranean Islands, the Balerics, Sicily, Sardinia, Crete, and Cyprus by Islam, the sea lanes became dangerous and impassible from Muslim piracy until they were cleared by the Normans after AD 1050. The Christians are reduced to areas of safety at sea to the Adriatic, Agean, and Black Seas. Thus we see the rise of the Roman Duchy of Venice into an independent Republic, the inward focus of the Roman Empire on its firm territory in Anatolia, Thrace, and Achaia to the neglect of contact with Rome, and the northward turn of evangelization to first the Bulgars and then the Russians by the east.

This cut off Carolingian Europe from the Roman East precisely at the moment when the Carolingians fell into a couple hundred years of internicene warfare after a failure to come to an agreement of union with the still civilized Roman Empire, and the tripartite division of the realm by Charlemange, followed by the Norman depredations. The gradual destruction of learning in the west is shown by the near silence for 150 years of the Papal Chancellary after the deaths of Pope John VII and Anastasius the Librarian (who put the final touches on the Liber Pontificalis) in the late AD 800's following the last Photian Council of AD 879-880 in Constantinople.

the German Lutherans

German prosperity was centered in the Catholic Rhineland, Baden, Bavaria and Silesia. The Protestant north and east was an oligarchical area under total control of the Junker class. Their failure to develop the land into family owned small holdings lead to a legacy of underpopulation in Prussia, Brandenburg, and Pommerania as the surplus population left for anywhere else (Ruhr and Silesia, Russia, America, Austrian Banat, etc.) to find a better life. The utter failure of development was exposed by the expulsions carried out by Stalin and Poland in the period 1945-1950. Despite holding 20% of Germany's landmass when one excludes industrialized and Catholic lower Silesia (Breslau to Kattowitz), one finds that this area held less than 10% of the population.

the British Anglicans

I'm very surprised you don't give the Scottish Calvinists their due here. The British Empire was enjoyed by Anglicans, but run by Scotsmen. Many of the great ideas attributed to "Britain" are really Scottish also, beginning with Smith and Capitalism.

the American Calvinists

Here you do need to include the Episcopalians, given their longstanding leading role in this country.

On the other hand, your passing over in silence your Dutch Calvinist brothers is inexplicable, although they and the British siezed in many places upon what the Portuguese and French had already developed in Africa, America, and India (many people don't realize that the Seven Years War/French and Indian War was the first true world war, with battle for final domination raging not only in Europe and America, but also in India), but were unable to hold on to (the Spaniards, however held their Empire until the revolts in the 1820's inspired by America).

All the Promised Dominion of Solomon has been given, world-wide, unto the Protestant Religion.

You are beginning to sound like a British-Israelite, except perhaps transmorphed into a Scotto-Dutch-Helvitic Israelite!

442 posted on 12/08/2003 6:31:16 AM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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