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To: Frumanchu; xzins
Don't look now, Marlowe...but you're starting to sound like a Calvinist. As soon as you understand and accept the real implications of total depravity on man's will, all the pieces will fall together :)

From a Calvinist viewpoint, your argument is a non-sequitor. If Calvinism is true, then I can never accept the implications of anything, since God has caused me to believe exactly as I do.

Perhaps I sound like a Calvinist because I accept some of what Calvinism asserts. I accept predestination. I accept pre-ordination. But I also assert that both predestination and fore-ordination are fully compatible with previenient grace and the exercise of free will. In that sense the pieces have all fallen together.

315 posted on 12/05/2003 12:31:04 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe
From a Calvinist viewpoint, your argument is a non-sequitor. If Calvinism is true, then I can never accept the implications of anything, since God has caused me to believe exactly as I do.

God caused you to believe exactly as you do? Hardly. Allowed you, perhaps...maybe caused in the formal sense, but certainly not in the instrumental sense. Our sanctification is a synergistic process.

Perhaps I sound like a Calvinist because I accept some of what Calvinism asserts. I accept predestination. I accept pre-ordination. But I also assert that both predestination and fore-ordination are fully compatible with previenient grace and the exercise of free will. In that sense the pieces have all fallen together.

Again, when you come to understand the effect of man's depravity on his will, the pieces will all fall together. The definitions you and I have for the "prevenient grace" compatible with predestination/fore-ordination are quite different, both in scope and efficacy.

316 posted on 12/05/2003 12:37:53 PM PST by Frumanchu (mene mene tekel upharsin)
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