The Meaning of 'foreknew' in Romans 8:29

The Five Points of Calvinism: Defined, Defended, Documented | 1963 | David N. Steele/Curtis C. Thomas

[Cvengr]

No, there are many good Scriptural arguments presented by Calvin, but IMHO, his theology is far from being Scripture or substituting it righteously.

There are also many who study Calvin and worship him more than exhibiting faith through Christ and turn Calvinism into a religion, good for nothingness.

[RnMomof7]

There you go again, insisting He couldn't have atoned for ALL sin,...only the sin of those He decides to choose. So tell me, which sins were OK to impute upon Christ and which ones he decided not to impute?

If He died for all the sins of all men then God is demanding a double payment from those He sends to hell.

Jesus paid once and then God demanded the man be punished for what was purchased by the blood of Christ.

Do you really think He would sacrifice is only Son simply to go choose those he simply wanted for salvation? He could have chosen some without all of that.

Do you really think Christ would have shed His most precious blood on those that hate His Father?

Jhn 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

[drstevej]

***There are also many who study Calvin and worship him more than exhibiting faith through Christ***

Names ????
Give me five names of people who worship Calvin.

[Cvengr]

"God could save all if that were His purpose."

I suspect we both know this is false.

His Holiness demands that His Justice take action in maintaining His Righteousness. Where unrighteousness occurs, He demands justice. If a person has nothing to be claimed as divine righteousness, then that person may not occupy fellowship with God in heaven for His Justice to remian immutable.

Those who reject even faith in Him through Christ, have no basis for Divine righteousness in anything they say, think or perform. Accordingly, in His justice, they are already destined for the Lake of Fire everlasting.

[Cvengr]

Any Calvinist who asserts a man who exercises free will in faith isn't sufficient to receive salvation by the work already performed by Christ and the efficacious grace of the Holy Spirit upon that faith of man.

I'll let you pick the names. I suspect many of them comprise the Calvinist Pox here on FR (they think they are a swarm).

[Cvengr]

Christ paid the price for all sin. Sin is no longer the question regarding salvation. Identifying the individual man with that sacrifice is the issue for salvation. That identification is only performed by the Holy Spirit, and made when our faith in Him is made valid by the Holy Spirit for salvation.

The body is still sinful and will suffer death. That portion of regeneration will await the Resurrection.

[Cvengr]

The Father makes the call, the Holy Spirit makes the salvation efficacious for those with faith, those receiving salvation are given to the Son.

[drstevej]

****I'll let you pick the names.***

Easier to spout lies than to come up with actual names?

***Any Calvinist who asserts a man who exercises free will in faith isn't sufficient to receive salvation by the work already performed by Christ and the efficacious grace of the Holy Spirit upon that faith of man.***

What in the heck does this mean?

[jude24]

What in the heck does this mean?

It means we're more Calvinist than he feels comfortable with.

Sad thing is... I remember a time when I would have been Cvenger. At one point four years ago, my CIT instructor and I earnestly discussed whether Calvinism was a hersey or an error. (We came out on the "severe error" side of things.)

[jude24]

the Holy Spirit makes the salvation efficacious for those with faith

How do dead men have faith? We were dead in our transgressions and sins, dead to God. "In Adam, all died."

Praline: It's not pining, it's passed on. This parrot is no more. It has ceased to be. It's expired and gone to meet its maker. This is a late parrot. It's a stiff. Bereft of life, it rests in peace. If you hadn't nailed it to the perch, it would be pushing up the daisies. It's rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible. This is an ex-parrot.

[PFKEY]

My appologies for not using HTML to make this a bit easier to read.

What is the Word? The scriptures, the Gospel.

Who is the Word? Jesus, the Son of God.

Does anything in that verse address the ability of "whoseover" to believe? No.


Is the world being saved? the world should be saved through him.


Is the term "world" to be understood in an all-inclusive, every-last-man-woman-child sense? The opportunity, the gift, God's grace is sufficient for the salvation of every last man woman and child.

Is that not obvious? It is not obvious. Christ's work is a total success. The gift is freely given but not all will accept it.

Or are you going to tell me that it is the Christians of the world who are to blame for Christ not being able to save more? The offer stands. The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Now if I may parse some of your earlier comments and ask a few question...

If He is truly Sovereign, He is and I think the doctrines of Calvin agree.

then He has the right to demand of us that which He requires, He does but now I start to get a bit fuzzy here with Calvin. I don't think demand would be the correct word because it is God who makes or causes us to do that which He requires. We certainly won't do it on our own. Not in our nature.


and we have the responsibility to obey, We do but Calvin would say that we can't obey unless God calls us and we can't refuse his calling so saying we have a responsibility is wrong. God has the responsibiblity to make us obey because we can't and wont do it on our own.


or suffer the consequences. That is the choice we have but under Calvinism there are no consequnces. Either we are the elect and can not refuse the calling or we are unregenerate and these consequences are really just out fate or our predestination.



We do not have the right to pick and choose what parts of His Word we will obey and follow, and to set aside that which we find difficult, inconvenient, or offensive. I would agree but with Calvinism those who are elect would not pick and choose and those unregenerate would never consider spiritual things so His Word and His will are of no import.



He does not ask anything of us that he will not enable us to obey. Agreed and I believe Calvin would as well.

He has provided not only the map, but the means to follow the map. That map is the ONLY one that will lead Home. All others lead to destruction. Agreed and I believe calvin would as well.

You responded earlier to a post quoting...

"You need to hear the Gospel, realize you're a sinner, repent, and ask Jesus to come into your heart and make you a new creation in Him. Your theology (or lack thereof) marks you as someone who is lost and on his way to Hell unless you repent and receive the Gospel with all your heart."

What good does hearing the Gospel do to the unregenerate?
What does the realization of one's sinful nature do for the unregenerate?
What does repentance do for the unregenerate?
Why would an unregenerate person ask Jesus to come into his heart and make a new creature in him?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

~"I remember a time when I could have been Cvenger..."~

Amazingly, I stumbled on this thread from more than two years ago. I'd heard about the fabled, heated exchanges between yourself and RnMom against the_Doc, Woody, Jerry_M, etc.

There's even a part where RnMom and White Mountain are defending each other! Whew!

But to read these posts is to witness a path glorified by God Himself.

http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a3b93a7216493.htm

[jude24]

Let no one ever say that the FR discussions don't accomplish anything. The Calvinist Swarm exists largely because of the_doc and CCWoody's discussions. They might have gotten heated, but hey: they changed both my and RnMomof7's minds. We've passed on what we've learned.

[Gamecock]

Wow! I've been around here for a while, but missed much of the theology debates.

That thread should come with a disclaimer: " Warning, not for the weak of heart!"

[Dr. Eckleburg]

And I continue to learn from all you fellow-swarmers.

[Gamecock]

daisies

Didn't I once see the Doctrines of Grace explained by D.A.I.S.Y.?

[Gamecock]

***And I continue to learn from all you fellow-swarmers.***

Ditto, but in the swarm, I am just a dropping of ignorance.

[snerkel]

Did I hear my name? Snerkeling Daisy at your service, sir.

---

Definitely we are Totally Depraved!
All Election is Unconditional!
I believe in Limited Atonement!
So then, Grace is Irresistable!
Yes! The Saints will Persevere!

[RochesterFan]

The question is this: Is God Omniscient? Is that a bible doctrine or is it not? Does he know everything or doesn't he?

Yes, he does. And here's one more idea to chew on: In Rom 8:29 proginosko is in the 3rd person singular aorist active indicative - as are the other verbs. They are active verbs. The subject (God) acts on the object (man). Foreknowlege is not a passive act on God's part. He actively and personally knows His own - and decrees it.