Texas Pastor Removed Over Latin Masses

Seattle Catholic ^ | July 4, 2003 | Peter Miller

[RobbyS]

Most people in the universities are taught the old positivist dogma that religion belongs to the childhood of mankind, and that any educated adult who is a believer is deluded. In place of a faith in God, they have faith in science--or whatever pretends to be science.

[ultima ratio]

There is no reason to be puzzled--it's as plain as the nose on your face. These bishops are not into Catholic teachings about the faith, they are Protestants and wish to make the rest of us Protestants. That is to say, a Mass which underscores perennial doctrines of the Catholic faith is horrifying to them: they wish to use the New Mass to subvert our faith and destroy it once and for all--using the same tactics, by the way, that Martin Luther did, starting with a "commemorative meal" liturgy and the suppression of all distinctly Catholic dogmas. The very same routine was used successfully by Thomas Cranmer who introduced his new liturgy little by little precisely to make Catholics gradually accept Protestantism. First came the small changes, followed by ever bigger ones stretched out over decades. Catholics pray now like Protestants, believe now like Protestants, receive Communion now like Protestants. They have become, in fact, Protestants.

[ultima ratio]

Nothing selfish about a priest seeking the salvation of souls through a truly Catholic Mass rather than a psuedo-Catholic one.

[sinkspur]

Nothing selfish about a priest seeking the salvation of souls through a truly Catholic Mass rather than a psuedo-Catholic one.

Confusing the hell out of a couple of thousand people, without notice, isn't selfish?

Of course it's selfish, as was Fiorenza. I don't understand these bishops who won't let a thousand flowers bloom. The Tridentine Liturgy should be celebrated where needed, when needed.

But, not imposed on anybody, at any time.

[Loyalist]

Catholics pray now like Protestants, believe now like Protestants, receive Communion now like Protestants. They have become, in fact, Protestants.

The Protestantization of Catholic worship is not the final end of the reform, but a transitional phase in the creation of a new universalist religion.

The hierarchy could not care less about other Protestant doctrines such as sola fide, sola scriptura or predestination, because they will not be part of the new religion.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

re #26: black is white, good is evil.... These stories sound like a Hollywood movie but they're all too real!

[NYer]

The fact that you say this priest was heading over the the SSPX explains a lot. Disobedience has a different definition in their dictionary.

Precisely! The failure to distinguish between the essential elements of the Mass common to all liturgies of all rites, and the accidental elements of other rites which are found in those liturgies is a true root cause for erroneous propositions.

I wonder how an SSPX bishop would react if one of his parish priests announced that he had decided to follow the the same Mass as the Holy Father, and was consequently refused access to celebrate Mass in their chapel.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

I'm not an expert on Church law by any means but something came to mind last night about this incident. If the Tridentine has never been abrogated, if any priest is allowed to say it by an historical papal decree, if this Pope has encouraged its use (controversy of this point aside), then this priest is only guilty of disobedience to his bishop. He is not guilty of disobedience to the Church or to the Pope. The Bishop is being disobedient himself. I don't understand how this priest can be punished. Can't he appeal this to the Vatican?

BTW, I am one of the few who is going to support what he did. I think it was an act of part desperation, part presenting the truth to the laity. I used to think the average Catholic was more informed than they actually are. I've since discovered most people don't even know what the Tridentine is or if they do, they are still completely passive and uninformed. The reaction of this priest's congregation was quite telling.

[ultima ratio]

If they are confused--it's about time they woke up to smell the coffee. Their Church is imploding and they want to clap hands and dance around the altar and wave daisy banners. Time to start defending the faith--against the marauders who are dismantling it.

[sinkspur]

Time to start defending the faith--against the marauders who are dismantling it.

Where are you defending it from?

From a sect which would jam the Tridentine Liturgy down the throats of these Houston Catholics as mercilessly has Fiorenza has kept it from them.

The hierarchy, and Paul VI, made a huge mistake in attempting to eradicate the Tridentine Mass.

It would be foolish to now repeat the mistake, as the SSPX would like to do.

If Fellay ever brings you guys back, he will have to do it under co-existence with the Novus Ordo. Some, like yourself and Williamson, I suspect, would rather insist on the highway of "Tridentine or bust."

[ultima ratio]

You need to believe it. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck--it's a duck. The Novus Ordo is a Protestant liturgy, pushing a Protestant, not a Catholic theology. If this seems bizarre to you: ask yourself--if these bishops actually believed Christ were truly present on the altar after the Consecration--wouldn't they push for a greater show of reverence instead of moving in the opposite direction, ripping out communion rails, instituting Communion in the hand and eliminating kneeling? Read the anathemas of Trent which very unambiguously anathematizing a liturgy emphasizing a sacrifice of commemoration--it's all there, popping up now again five centuries later.

[ultima ratio]

You are absolutely right when you say "the Protestantization of Catholic worship is not the final end of the reform." Check the following from Traditio.com:

____________________________________________________________

The Novus Ordo Archdiocese of Baltimore is the first to implement the New Vatican's latest error in putting out the notion that the Jews don't have to accept Jesus Christ as the Messias. They can look for another.

A new rite of "Baptism" has been engineered that incorporates Jewish elements with "Catholic" ones. And, far from discouraging Catholic marriage with Jews, which is essentially a violation of the Natural Law (because of the danger of perversion of the Faith of the Catholic party, although for good cause in specific cases dispensations have been given for disparity of cult), the archdiocese is encouraging religious relativism.

At that part of the "Baptism" when the Catholic participants renew their baptismal promises, the Jews present are invited to affirm their faith in the Torah publicly with the words: "Hear, O Israel, the Lord your God is Lord alone." Instead of making the Sign of the Cross, they made the Star of David.

According to the Baltimore archdiocese's official organ, Catholic [sic] Review of July 3, Novus Ordo Cardinal Keeler there will not use the name of Jesus Christ in any liturgical ceremony when Jews are present.

One recalls the Jewish Apostles, when Christ confronted them about where their faith lay and asked them pointedly: "Will you also go away? And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life" (John 6:68-69/DRV). That is the Catholic answer. Christ is the only God, the only Messias, the only Truth.

[ultima ratio]

There is not a shred of evidence this priest was heading over to SSPX--a story concocted to cover for the bishop's show of his true colors. Just more malarky. People can't stand truth.

[ultima ratio]

While the two rites may one day "co-exist", the two faiths can't. One is Catholic, the other isn't. One rite supports and affirms Catholic theology and dogmas, the other undermines and suppresses Catholicism.

As Jesus warned us, a servant cannot serve two masters. One is the true faith, founded by Christ Himself for all time, the other is a politically correct concoction fabricated by humanists. No contest.

[ultima ratio]

anathematizing=condemns

[BlackElk]

There are times when you have had legitimate complaints but what the hell does Rome (trusting that you mean the Vatican) have to do with the renegade Bishop Fiorenza? He is AmChurch personified. Like that scum Trautman in Erie, PA, or that other scum Adamec in Johnstown-Altoona, he is getting back in shape for major league defiance of Rome when the Mass document is issued by Arinze, Ratzinger and another come fall.

The ones who walked out of this priests Mass are getting in practice too. They remind me of Planned Barrenhood in a tizzy over the possibility that someone hostile to infant slaughter might make it onto the SCOTUS and reposess the stolen constitution massacred in Roe vs. Wade. No less than you an I, the bishop and those parishioners KNOW that the suppression of the Tridentine Mass is another instance of stolen goods.

I would burn Fiorenza, Trautman, Adamec, McPhoney and all of their ilk at the stake in a New York minute. I hope you would too. I would dig up Bernardin and burn him posthumously. Unfortunately, it is less practically possible to adminster real justice nowadays. Don't blame the victim.

If your computer skills exceed mine (even Ronald Reagan in his current condition has better skills than I) you might be able to find the transcript of Fiorenza's deposition on covering for pedophiles and other exotic flora and fauna among his priests in which Fiorenza essentially smart mouths the deposition-taking lawyer and says, hey, it ain't no big deal and I will be long retired before this gets resolved.

[BlackElk]

Thanks for this informative post. Fiorenza is below the bottom of the barrel.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Can't Father Zigrang get a canon lawyer and take this to the Vatican?