Posted on 07/04/2003 9:27:18 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
What wrongdoing!? All we have is an expression of concern. And how we have that is not documented. The author does not cite his source for that tidbit of information. Any wrongdoing is in your head. The paranoia and suspicion that attends your affiliations created the phantom wrongdoing. I'm not defending the clergy; I'm exposing mirages.
At Mass today the priest told us not to kneel, which surprised me, to say the least. Our parish is being painted and Mass is taking place in the basement and there are folding chairs instead of pews, of course.
When I got the bulletin, this is what it said:
LET'S NOT KNEEL FOR A WHILE Obviously, while we are celebrating Mass in the hall and the main church is being painted we don't have kneelers.A pastoral view says that we stand at the times when we knelt in normal days at Mass.
If standing on the concrete and tile floor is difficult because of injury or age please be seated.
An interesting background is that in 1970 and 1975 the Holy Father, Pope Paul VI, approved the new Roman Missal and stipulated that: "at every Mass the people should stand....from the pray over the gifts to the end of the Mass."
"They should kneel at the consecration unless prevented by the lack of space, the numbers of people present, or some other good reason."
A funny thing happened on the way to the United States. The Bishops of the United States chose to change this stipulation and keep to the traditional times of kneeling.
Many bishops in the United States are beginning to accept the "new" rules of standing.
A sidelight... in government, business and the military, if someone distinguished comes into a hall or room...everyone stands.
Am I being more of a Ciceronian than a Christian by being hurt and sort of offended that I cannot kneel during the Mass at the traditional times? I did kneel at the consecration (hadn't yet read the bulletin) and the priest told us (me and my kids and one other older woman) not to kneel. Even my kids were taken aback.
I value your opinion on this and also appreciate input from anyone else as I battle (internally) with things like this all the time. I don't want to be scrupulous but it hurts not to kneel, especially after receiving Communion.
But I do appreciate the depth of animus against the bishops, I do appreciate the knee-jerk defense of anything remotely resembling traditional, and most importantly I do appreciate your distortions of facts to conform with pre-formed conclusions.
More than haircloth. I've read that they wear some sort of spiked thing on one of their legs that causes pain.
We also did this thing with "passing a basket" for the collection instead of using the regular baskets with handles and afterwards, the collection monies were placed at the foot of the altar instead of being kept "somewhere" during the Mass as had always been done. It was weird... never seen it done before except during some Protestant services. I didn't like it at all, but I wrestle with innovations with the Mass and sometimes I'm afraid I can't tell when something is important and when it is not important. My parish is very liberal and I feel very alienated a lot of times.
I found it more than ironic that one day when discussing the ICEL with the parish priest, he said we should pull away from Rome. And now here he is quoting a pope because it suits his purposes (whatever they are!).
Does it hurt, or do you feel like you're somehow dissing Jesus by not kneeling? I can understand why the priest would institute this; there's a pastoral reason to ask for folks to stand, or sit.
Offer up not kneeling; when you're back in the main Church, you can kneel again.
Reasoning with you has the same effect as silence.
But to consign me to hell fire because I disagree with you is rhetorical overkill.
I didn't consign you to hellfire. That is overkill. I suggested to you that you rethink the consequences of your reliance on rhetoric and ultimate reason. It is failing you. At least St. Jerome had the humility to doubt himself.
Nor do I lie. I give reasons for what I say and think.
Your claim, that the Real Presence is suppressed, no matter what evidence you produce is a lie. The catechism doesn't supress it. The magisterium doesn't suppress it. The pope, in his writings, doesn't suppress it. The rubrics of the mass doesn't suppress it. The GIRM doesn't suppress it. The widespread Eucharistic Adorations, Benedictions, Corpus Christi processions don't suppress it. I would say that your claim is false on it's face, and perhaps it would be charitable to attribute ignorance to your claim, but I don't regard you as ignorant. If you are not purposefully lieing, then you are just repeating others' lies. Does that make you blameless?
I already do "offer up" a lot of different things... it took me a long time to get to that point. But I suspect the way the priest wants us to stand now is the way it will be in the future when the church has been painted and we are all back upstairs. Otherwise, why the lengthy blurb about it in the bulletin? He is a very liberal guy.
I think it's time to go elsewhere, at least for a while. I'm sure the priest won't miss us! ;-)
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I really didn't know what to think except that it would be good for him to watch it once in a while,might introduce him to Catholicism,the Faith so many of us know and love.
I know that this sitting I am recommending may seem disrespectful but to me the Mass is for a special communion with God and I just cannot get into it standing at attention with the community.
I have noticed an increasing polarization and separating of the forces.The parishes that are orthodox are getting more so and the other ones are trying harder to impose any document that supports innovation,liberalization and decatholicization of the Catholic Church.
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