Saving Catholicism in Europe

National Catholic Reporter ^ | 7/3/2003 | John L. Allen

[Loyalist]

Is it too late to save Europe from the twin threats of nihilism and Islam?

[Antoninus]

Are you going to post every article from the National Catholic Reporter? I don't subscribe to it for a reason...

[sinkspur]

Are you going to post every article from the National Catholic Reporter? I don't subscribe to it for a reason.

Actually, this is one article, and I break it up into five or six, because, logically, there are five breaks in the article.

I post very little else from NCR, as it is largely social justice liberalism.

But, if I see something fairly rational, like Joe Fuerherd's articles, I'll post them.

You have the option, of course, to pass right over them, not read them, and not comment on them.

NCR's John Allen is on the ground in Rome and gets interviews from people who will talk to no one else, and gets information that no other Catholic newspaper reports.

I report, you decide.

[8mmMauser]

Looks like it. In the seven years we lived in rural France last decade, the venerable old churches were emptying and withering like flowers in a drought. At the same time the church members aged and faded, a strong surge of young with large families sought out the traditional Church. There were maybe a half dozen weekly traditional Masses or more within driving distance of us, and usually packed with the faithful. We would attend early to be assured of seating.

Yet, in our locality, the only Novus Ordo priest covered four church parishes, alternated Sunday Mass at one or the other, and those few from the other towns would travel there. Some said the number of traditionals was soon to equal or surpass those who still attended Novus Ordo. We have no idea if they were right, but that supported what we witnessed.

The Islamists we knew of there, being Algerian Kabili, posed no particular problem either in numbers or impact.

Oh, yes, these very same churches were used by St. Louis Marie Grignon de Montfort in his effective renewal of the Faith in the region. He tackled a similar problem of people drifting away from the Church, succeeded in dragging them back to Mass. It worked.

[narses]

No, but absent a miracle, they are toast.

[St.Chuck]

Are you going to post every article from the National Catholic Reporter? I don't subscribe to it for a reason...

LOL

[claritas]

I was in Europe last summer, studying in Austria. What struck me was the utter hopelessness and despair of the people. It was obvious to me that structural reform was not the solution to the problem. Rather, there is a more fundamental problem in the wayin which people approach the world. There do not have faith. If one does not have faith in God, faith in His Son, and faith in His Church, then no amount of democratic reorganization is going to help, because that reform is wanted for purely secular purposes, not for purposes that spring from the gospel.

While at an ordition of a Jesuit friend who is a top notch defender of the faith, I pointed out to two Austrian women who were there how happy everyone was. Here were large families, young nuns, and faithful Jesuits, who were not just happy because it was a joyous event. They were happy because they had a proper relationship with God and thus with the world. When I pointed out that people in Austria were not this happy, it seemed like a revelation to them. Amazingly, people don't know (or have lulled themselves into forgetting) how unhappy they are, and they don't think there is another option. We need to tell them that there is another option, but it might hurt a little

[sinkspur]

Another factor in Europe's depression are its political systems. Most are socialist, and punitive taxation destroys whatever incentives and spirit might exist in the business community.

Faith in God won't put bread on the table if mother government has her boot on your neck.

[Goetz_von_Berlichingen]

"Is it too late to save Europe from the twin threats of nihilism and Islam?"

Only through a revival of nationalism.

Terminate the dictatorship by deracinated cosmopolitans and allow the traditional cultures of Europe to flourish umimpeded by the blatant lie that "diversity is our strength."

[Thorondir]

Are you going to post every article from the National Catholic Reporter? I don't subscribe to it for a reason...

It's a vile, anti-Catholic, Amchurch rag, but then, that's exactly why some people like it.

Dominus vobiscum

[Thorondir]

The Nervous Disorder Mass is a disaster for the Church. Only the Latin rite will restore the damage. That, and a few thousand excommunications, especially of apostate bishops and priests.

[Thorondir]

Faith in God won't put bread on the table if mother government has her boot on your neck.

WRONG! Rome had its boot on Israel's neck and Jesus put food on the table for thousands with nothing more than a few loaves and fishes.

Only a man without faith could make such a faithless and apostate statement. The government is not god (not MY God, anyway). God is all powerful, and Jesus said anything is possible with faith the size of a mustard seed.

This explains a lot that I have been wondering about, sinkspur.

[sinkspur]

This explains a lot that I have been wondering about, sinkspur.

What have you been wondering about, Thorondir?

How much you hate my guts? How every post to me is some nasty, rude, condemnation-to-hell from your oh-so-sanctimonious keyboard?

You ought to take the beam out of your own eye, buster!

[sinkspur]

Only the Latin rite will restore the damage.

Yes. Forcing the Tridentine Rite on the Church will restore much damage, more damage than the Novus Ordo ever caused.

(Walked right into that with your clumsy use of "restore.")

[Thorondir]

No, I don't hate you, man. It just explains your constant attacks against the Catholic Church while claiming to be Catholic. It explains your consistent embrace of liberalism and your hatred for everything sacred and clean. I don't hate you, I just feel sorry for you. And don't bother with the beam thing. I have never claimed to be a good man. Never would. Never claimed to be better than you. I just don't like your attacks against the sacraments and your love of the banal.

[narses]

You need rest Deacon, your bitterness and thin skin is getting worse, not better.

[Thorondir]

I never suggested forcing the better rite of the Church on the apostate chaff. I said the latin right will restore the Church. I said this because if have faith in the divine power of the sacraments. I have faith in the Tridentine Mass, not the Nervous Disorder Mess. I do have faith that the Latin rite will restore the Church you hate. That has nothing to do with forcing anyone to attend it.

BTW: It will not restore your Amchurch. That abomnation will go on after it formally breaks away from the Church it left long ago in spirit. Perhaps then you can be ordained YOUR way to do things YOUR way and follow YOUR way.

To each his own, but I choose His own.

[royalcello]

What do you think are the chances for this happening in our lifetimes? I'm not optimistic.

[Ippolita]

Not necessarily nationalism; but necessarily the idea of individual national sovreignty: this hodge-podge Europa they're trying to sell us at all levels is a spawned directly from Hell!