Posted on 07/01/2003 10:22:12 AM PDT by ksen
RECOVERING THE TRUTH & A COMING TO A CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF JESUS
Jesus and all his followers were Jews who were faithful to Biblical Judaism and never intended to separate from or start a new religion; after their deaths the Gentile Christian church will condemn the Jewish Christians as heretics...in time fruit of the Jewish Church (Gentile Christianity) will destroy it's mother
We have a unique paradox in Biblical history; one which touches every follower of Jesus yet today and which reaches to the very core of our own culture and time. It is impossible to understand Jesus or his message until we come to a correct understanding of the events that fashioned such persecution of the Jews by the Gentile believers and which contributed to the alteration of the faith of Jesus as can be found to have existed in the first century of Second Temple Judaism. As stated earlier the first and greatest division in the early church concerned the relationship of the followers of Jesus to Judaism; it shaped everything that was to follow. One of the greatest problems facing Christianity today is how to reconcile what it has become with G-d's intended vision for the Gentile nations of the world whereby they become part of the Israel of G-d and not "replace" it with a religion of their own creation. The answers for such a problem come only when one personally acquaints himself with an unbiased presentation of the facts of the tragic events of this part of Biblical history and traces the repercussions of such events down through the corridors of history and ultimately seeing the shock waves from them that are present in our own religious beliefs systems and cultures of today.
Today many scholars tell us the truth today about the early church and courageously break from "church traditions" and "mind control" to present the facts concerning these "events" and the corruption of the early faith of the historical Jesus by the Gentile "converts" who would later steer the direction of this "faith" throughout recorded history. It is so simple today to find this information, but sadly few look or even know the need to see if "they be in the faith." That being the case, we accept the "spin" of religious leaders down through history and the real message of Jesus is never heard, or at best, is overlooked for more "orthodox teachings" espoused which have taken it's place. Keith Akers, in his The Lost Religion of Jesus, states the case as well as any. Jewish Christianity consisted of those early Christians who followed the teachings of Jesus, as they understood him, and also remained loyal to the Jewish law of Moses as they understood it. Messianic Judaism was not to replace Judaism with a new faith; it was the goal and zenith for which the prophets wrote and hoped. This simple statement is of profound importance, because the Jewish Christians were eventually rejected both by orthodox Judaism and by orthodox Gentile Christianity. The understanding of the Jewish follower of Jesus was not that of orthodox Christianity (as it came to be where Jesus is seen more like the sun-g-dmen of the Gentile nations than a human messiah). Likewise the Jewish follower of Jesus possessed an understanding of the law of Moses that was the same as orthodox Judaism, but yet this view would later be rejected under the influence of Paul and his churches. Jerome's celebrated comment in the fourth century summarizes this dual rejection: "As long as they seek to be both Jews and Christians, they are neither Jews nor Christians" [Letter 112] (Akers, The Lost Religion of Jesus, p. 7).
The Jewish Christians considered Jesus to be the "true prophet" who would lead the people back to the eternal law that commanded simple living and nonviolence. They saw in Jesus their hopes for physical redemption and the fulfillment of the prophets. It was their hope that the Law would go forth from Zion with Jesus at its head as the long awaited Messiah and King of Israel. It was their hope that the enemies of Israel would be vanquished by the word of this anointed one of the LORD as taught in the Psalms of Solomon (no not the psalms you are familiar with but a separate Jewish books that was recognized by Jews as authoritative in the first century). The law, which was cherished by all G-dfearing Jews, had been given to Moses; indeed, it had existed from the beginning of the world, and was intended to be cherished and observed by both Jew and non-Jew alike because in the Commandments one finds the unique Covenant stipulations of his Covenant before G-d. In sharp contrast with the gentile Christian movement, which emerged in the wake of Paul's teaching, Jewish Christianity strove to make the Jewish law stricter than the Jewish tradition seemed to teach ("you have heard it said but I say unto you...'much more'"). Such was the Jesus' love for G-d and His Word. But this cannot be said for the Gentile churches which strove to find ways to lay aside the law for the laxity that was taught under the disguise of "grace." In other words, the non-Jews loved the large "gray areas" that came from the teaching of Paul and others who negated the Law through their own personal "revelations" and their own personal "gospels" (Paul is found saying in Rom 2:16 16: In the day when G-d shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel and again in 2 Tim 2:8 8: Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel). It is a little early in this article to address this concept but if you study continues you will reach a point in your understanding and knowledge where you will see beyond any doubt that the "gospel of Paul" replaced the "gospel of Jesus and Judaism."
Jewish Christianity is the blind spot in virtually all accounts of Jesus. Everyone agrees that Jesus was a Jew and that his initial followers were Jews. Yet of the thousands of books written about Jesus, almost none acknowledge the central importance of Jewish Christianity; at least until the end of the previous century and the beginning of the present one. That was true up until the latter part of the last century when Jewish, as well as European scholars began to reevaluate the Jewish Jesus and contrast the Historical Jesus with the Christ of Faith. There are many who are eager to focus specifically on the Jewishness of Jesus, until they get to the point of examining those of his followers who, like their teacher, were also Jewish, and in doing so see for themselves that actually nothing really changed within this community of the closest followers of Jesus until the early fourth century when Rome would effectively destroy the Jewish "followers of Jesus" by declaring them official heretics. The power of Rome would propagate a Gentile understanding and not a Jewish understanding of Jesus (see Constantine's Easter letter if you have any doubts).
The "Jewishness" of these early Christians does not refer to their ethnic group or nationality, but rather to their beliefs. Paul was a convert to Judaism (H. Maccoby, The Mythmaker, Paul And The Invention Of Christianity) and only later converted to Judaism; first a Sadducee, and after rejection by the Chief Priest he turned to the Pharisees, again only to be rejected by them for his prior cruelty to them as an agent of the Temple police who routed them out and killed them (the Messianic believing strict branch of the Pharisees called Nazarenes/Essenes). Paul also preaches freedom from the law and therefore explicitly rejects Jewish beliefs. Paul, and some of the other Jews who became Christians, renounced the law of Moses and, therefore, were not part of Jewish Christianity. The churches of Paul today (vast majority of Christianity as it exists today) lay outside the true faith of Jesus and will continue to do so unless they encounter the truth about this man of Galilee and the truth about their own religious history.
Without understanding Jewish Messianic Judaism or "intended Christianity", we cannot understand the historical Jesus let alone the earliest church nor the corruption of it within the New Testament correctly. Lacking this knowledge we are doomed to misinterpret most of what we read in the New Testament and our worship let alone our conduct will be in error...much of which is defined as sin in the Torah.
30-40 years isn't a lot compared to eternity. Um, He had a lot of other things to do then, what with setting up His new Church and whatnot. Yeah, that's it.
Also, the Roman legions didn't have carriers to take them there, they had to march.
SD
But it was damaged when he took it on? And at that instant it became undamaged?
It had to go through Purgatory first, but yes. That's about it. Then again, I'm just a simple Steeler fan, not a trained theologian.
SD
Did the come from Egypt via Sinai? ;o)
Did you just throw in the terrible towel? ;o)
No, via Alaska and the North Pole. Ya know. The scenic route.
SD
The pre tribes see it as an actual temple with sacrifices looking BACK at the cross and not foreword to it as the old temple sacrifices did.
That particular scripture is what made me consider the A mil position. As to believe that there will ever be GOD ORDAINED sacrifices again is contrary to the NT.
For the week, yep. Though I was only half-kidding in the lst post. The human nature would indeed be redeemed/restored/perfected upon its uniting with the divine nature. Cause the idea of anything imperfect or unclean uniting with God is impossible.
Have a good weekend, y'all.
SD
Wow when has dave ever admitted he wasn't a trained theologian?
Time to take a trip to the Catholic Advent site. lol
Excellent point..you would make a fine protestant *grin*
May I suggest that it was not a sacrifice in the manner of the animals , but rather it was a willing offering that laid down His life
Jhn 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Jhn 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father
I'm pretty sure he was human...
In this context I find this portion of the verse very interesting. You'll note that he doesn't say he received this commandment from scripture, but rather from God.
Agreed. But, He was also the "lamb which was slain:"
John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the
Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
1 Corinthians 5:7
Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without
Yeast-;as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been
sacrificed.
DG
I quoted that verse last week, on this thread or a different one. The sacrifice of the Passover lamb was a remembrance, not an atoning sacrifice.
Those Passover lambs after the first, or initial ones, while still in Egypt. That lamb could be seen as an atoning or "cleansing" sacrifice (before the Tabernacle, or Temple, or even Altar) since the blood of the lamb was put on the doorposts, probably prefiguring the blood sprinkled by the High priest, for the cleansing of the Holy of Holies, etc.
Exodus 12:
7 Then they are to
take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of
the houses where they eat the lambs.
Of course, there was a dual purpose--as "a sign" so that they would not be killed (by the final plague):
12 "On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every
firstborn-both men and animals-and I will bring judgment on all the gods
of Egypt. I am the LORD . 13 The blood will be a sign for you on the
houses where you are; and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No
destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.
They were saved "by the blood of the lamb." Just so, the "blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin." [1 John 1:7]
DG
Which brings us to the realm of speculation rather than of concrete fact. Scripture says explicitly that it is a remembrance.
This day shall be for you a memorial day, and you shall keep it as a feast to the LORD; throughout your generations you shall observe it as an ordinance for ever. (Exodus 12:14)
There is nothing here indicating that the offering of the lamb for passover, even the first one passover in Egypt, was an atoning sacrifice.
I agree with your point about it being a "sign".
Technically, I agree. Although, atonement basically means a covering, and one could look at the blood as being the covering for Israel, the firstborn of YHWH. An interesting study.
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