Posted on 07/01/2003 10:22:12 AM PDT by ksen
RECOVERING THE TRUTH & A COMING TO A CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF JESUS
Jesus and all his followers were Jews who were faithful to Biblical Judaism and never intended to separate from or start a new religion; after their deaths the Gentile Christian church will condemn the Jewish Christians as heretics...in time fruit of the Jewish Church (Gentile Christianity) will destroy it's mother
We have a unique paradox in Biblical history; one which touches every follower of Jesus yet today and which reaches to the very core of our own culture and time. It is impossible to understand Jesus or his message until we come to a correct understanding of the events that fashioned such persecution of the Jews by the Gentile believers and which contributed to the alteration of the faith of Jesus as can be found to have existed in the first century of Second Temple Judaism. As stated earlier the first and greatest division in the early church concerned the relationship of the followers of Jesus to Judaism; it shaped everything that was to follow. One of the greatest problems facing Christianity today is how to reconcile what it has become with G-d's intended vision for the Gentile nations of the world whereby they become part of the Israel of G-d and not "replace" it with a religion of their own creation. The answers for such a problem come only when one personally acquaints himself with an unbiased presentation of the facts of the tragic events of this part of Biblical history and traces the repercussions of such events down through the corridors of history and ultimately seeing the shock waves from them that are present in our own religious beliefs systems and cultures of today.
Today many scholars tell us the truth today about the early church and courageously break from "church traditions" and "mind control" to present the facts concerning these "events" and the corruption of the early faith of the historical Jesus by the Gentile "converts" who would later steer the direction of this "faith" throughout recorded history. It is so simple today to find this information, but sadly few look or even know the need to see if "they be in the faith." That being the case, we accept the "spin" of religious leaders down through history and the real message of Jesus is never heard, or at best, is overlooked for more "orthodox teachings" espoused which have taken it's place. Keith Akers, in his The Lost Religion of Jesus, states the case as well as any. Jewish Christianity consisted of those early Christians who followed the teachings of Jesus, as they understood him, and also remained loyal to the Jewish law of Moses as they understood it. Messianic Judaism was not to replace Judaism with a new faith; it was the goal and zenith for which the prophets wrote and hoped. This simple statement is of profound importance, because the Jewish Christians were eventually rejected both by orthodox Judaism and by orthodox Gentile Christianity. The understanding of the Jewish follower of Jesus was not that of orthodox Christianity (as it came to be where Jesus is seen more like the sun-g-dmen of the Gentile nations than a human messiah). Likewise the Jewish follower of Jesus possessed an understanding of the law of Moses that was the same as orthodox Judaism, but yet this view would later be rejected under the influence of Paul and his churches. Jerome's celebrated comment in the fourth century summarizes this dual rejection: "As long as they seek to be both Jews and Christians, they are neither Jews nor Christians" [Letter 112] (Akers, The Lost Religion of Jesus, p. 7).
The Jewish Christians considered Jesus to be the "true prophet" who would lead the people back to the eternal law that commanded simple living and nonviolence. They saw in Jesus their hopes for physical redemption and the fulfillment of the prophets. It was their hope that the Law would go forth from Zion with Jesus at its head as the long awaited Messiah and King of Israel. It was their hope that the enemies of Israel would be vanquished by the word of this anointed one of the LORD as taught in the Psalms of Solomon (no not the psalms you are familiar with but a separate Jewish books that was recognized by Jews as authoritative in the first century). The law, which was cherished by all G-dfearing Jews, had been given to Moses; indeed, it had existed from the beginning of the world, and was intended to be cherished and observed by both Jew and non-Jew alike because in the Commandments one finds the unique Covenant stipulations of his Covenant before G-d. In sharp contrast with the gentile Christian movement, which emerged in the wake of Paul's teaching, Jewish Christianity strove to make the Jewish law stricter than the Jewish tradition seemed to teach ("you have heard it said but I say unto you...'much more'"). Such was the Jesus' love for G-d and His Word. But this cannot be said for the Gentile churches which strove to find ways to lay aside the law for the laxity that was taught under the disguise of "grace." In other words, the non-Jews loved the large "gray areas" that came from the teaching of Paul and others who negated the Law through their own personal "revelations" and their own personal "gospels" (Paul is found saying in Rom 2:16 16: In the day when G-d shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel and again in 2 Tim 2:8 8: Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel). It is a little early in this article to address this concept but if you study continues you will reach a point in your understanding and knowledge where you will see beyond any doubt that the "gospel of Paul" replaced the "gospel of Jesus and Judaism."
Jewish Christianity is the blind spot in virtually all accounts of Jesus. Everyone agrees that Jesus was a Jew and that his initial followers were Jews. Yet of the thousands of books written about Jesus, almost none acknowledge the central importance of Jewish Christianity; at least until the end of the previous century and the beginning of the present one. That was true up until the latter part of the last century when Jewish, as well as European scholars began to reevaluate the Jewish Jesus and contrast the Historical Jesus with the Christ of Faith. There are many who are eager to focus specifically on the Jewishness of Jesus, until they get to the point of examining those of his followers who, like their teacher, were also Jewish, and in doing so see for themselves that actually nothing really changed within this community of the closest followers of Jesus until the early fourth century when Rome would effectively destroy the Jewish "followers of Jesus" by declaring them official heretics. The power of Rome would propagate a Gentile understanding and not a Jewish understanding of Jesus (see Constantine's Easter letter if you have any doubts).
The "Jewishness" of these early Christians does not refer to their ethnic group or nationality, but rather to their beliefs. Paul was a convert to Judaism (H. Maccoby, The Mythmaker, Paul And The Invention Of Christianity) and only later converted to Judaism; first a Sadducee, and after rejection by the Chief Priest he turned to the Pharisees, again only to be rejected by them for his prior cruelty to them as an agent of the Temple police who routed them out and killed them (the Messianic believing strict branch of the Pharisees called Nazarenes/Essenes). Paul also preaches freedom from the law and therefore explicitly rejects Jewish beliefs. Paul, and some of the other Jews who became Christians, renounced the law of Moses and, therefore, were not part of Jewish Christianity. The churches of Paul today (vast majority of Christianity as it exists today) lay outside the true faith of Jesus and will continue to do so unless they encounter the truth about this man of Galilee and the truth about their own religious history.
Without understanding Jewish Messianic Judaism or "intended Christianity", we cannot understand the historical Jesus let alone the earliest church nor the corruption of it within the New Testament correctly. Lacking this knowledge we are doomed to misinterpret most of what we read in the New Testament and our worship let alone our conduct will be in error...much of which is defined as sin in the Torah.
You know Jesus had/has free will and had a choice to back out of the deal.
What do you think it would have been like if he did?
I agree God knows all from beganning to the end!
But with free will not all will rise to their calling!
Why does it seem he was directly intervening? Doesn't seem that way to me.
"God's fault" is not a valid concept.
SD
Well. If you're wrong, according to you He's playing dice with the universe.
This is one of those non-straightforward mystery dilemma things that Malakhi doesn't like.
Jesus as man was capable of "backing out," but as God was not capable of doing so. So we must simultaneously accept that Jesus was tempted to give up, truly tempted, and that there was no way He was going to fail.
How could God fail?
SD
I suspect because "its a mystery" is a form of ejecting from the debate.
No, according to Malakhi, if the Arians won or the Trinitarians won was merely historical happenstance. Like whether Coke or Pepsi wins a taste test.
I think God was interested an made sure the Truth won out. You believe (?) that God let his Truth be buried.
SD
Obviously not since we're still discussing it today. :-)
Not really. It's a way of saying either "It is unknowable" or "My belief in God precludes any alternative."
If Jesus did not follow through with His mission, it would mean that God chose the wrong man to be savior, that God had failed in foreknowledge (to say the very least). Which is to make God fallible which ends all religion.
SD
SD
Well as Don Meredith once said on Monday Night Football. "If ifs and ands were pots and pans, the world would be a kitchen sink". :-)
First of all, who's been prevented from knowing it? There were those prevented from knowledge of the Trinity prior to 424 ad. I believe God has this ignorance thing worked out. Secondly, was it God's plan that everyone had it wrong save for Noah and his sons. Why do we think we're so much smarter than those who have preceeded us?
In this context, how does the Catholic church view the rise of Islam?
God doesn't have free will?
Does God want us to sin?
I'll let this sink in for a minute.
I realize you're not Protestant anymore, but I never thought you'd say something like that. LOL
SD
I realize you're not Protestant anymore, but I never thought you'd say something like that. LOL
Ok. I've let it sink in and can understand the humor. Here's a return Lol for ya. Now please answer the question.
It is a sad development made possible by the continual shucking of orthodox Christology. That is, the areas in the east that fell to Islam were made susecptible to it by the refusal to acknowledge Jesus as God.
The eastern mind seemd ready to take the next step and deny Jesus any special status and cling to the strong monotheism momdel.
SD
God doesn't have free will?
Good question. God does indeed act freely, but He can not act against his nature. He can not sin. He can not fail.
Having set out to Incarnate and Redeem the world, that is what He would have done.
Yes, I recognize the assumptions made are huge, but God did not Incarnate for nothing. It was to acheive what He did acheive. Nothing more, nothign less. What He did is what He planned to do.
SD
Does God want us to sin?
Somewhere between Deism and Calvinism is a balance.
God is neither wholly disinterested and uninvolved, nor is He utterly involved.
Speaking about the Creeds that His Church would carry to the world, yes I think He had some involvement in this. Whether one particular man chooses this or that may not hold such a great importance, but the question of the guidance of His Church is of great importance.
One might as well say, from my perspective, that if Goliath had killed young David, the entire history of the Hebrew would be different.
SD
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