As to "rational thought", now would that be based on Aristotle's philosophy or Plato's, or even Philo's, because Socrates and Plato closely allied the knowledge of isotes- geometrical equality- the foundation of the physical cosmos- with dikaiosyne and sophrosyne and if we are going to define the absence of rational thought, I really need to know which one you mean, and if Philo's, well then we have to bring in the Jewish idea of it, now don't we, Skippy?