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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
"....if the Ecclesial Contributions of the BLOOD-BROTHERS of Our Lord Jesus Christ . . . etc."

My point was that nothing posted here has in any way demonstrated that James and Joses (cf. Matt. 13) were the "BLOOD-BROTHERS" of the Lord. I showed earlier that these two men were, in fact the sons of Mary the wife of Cleophas, not Mary the mother of the Lord.
154 posted on 07/07/2003 5:00:46 PM PDT by Patrick Madrid
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To: Patrick Madrid; Polycarp; BibChr; the_doc; drstevej; MarMema
I showed earlier that these two men were, in fact the sons of Mary the wife of Cleophas, not Mary the mother of the Lord.

Except that explanation won't fly -- because we're talking about two different Marys (three, counting Magdalene, who is not relevant to the discussion) and two different James (three, counting Bar Zebedee, who is only relevant to the discussion in regard to the record of Clement as detailed below).

As previously anticipated and contraverted in my Post (see the footnoted Link), first-cousin James "the Lesser" (son of Mary of Cleophas) was already numbered by name among the Believers and Followers of Jesus as early as Matthew 10:3, whereas James "the Righteous" (son of Mary of Joseph) was still numbered by name among the Unbelievers and Doubters as late as Matthew 12:46-13:55.

Let me phrase the argument in two parts to make it even more explicit:

This is even further buttressed in the Linked Article, in the context of the related citation of John 7 :

So, allow me this review of my Arguments:

Ergo, to tie it all in with the discussion at hand: good interpretive evidence for something very dramatic happening after Jesus’ crucifixion lies in the very fact that Jesus’ brothers didn't believe who He was (would your brothers?) until the resurrection (which would convince anyone!). Suddenly, the oldest surviving sibling is the head of the Jerusalem Assembly of Jesus Movement Jews. -- Jack Kilmon, History and the New Testament

All of which militates strongly against the dogma of "Perpetual Virginity"; but, what is more, against the Romano-centric and Petrine-successionist view of the Early Church altogether.

best, OP

156 posted on 07/07/2003 6:30:17 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done our Duty)
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