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To: Hermann the Cherusker
***In any case, the primary proof of Mary's sinlessness is Genesis 3.16, "enmity between you and the woman". One who is under Original Sin cannot be at enmity with the Devil.
***

HtC, Mary doesn't have to be saved at conception to fulfil this. At the time of the conception of Jesus she was a believer. When this occurred is unstated in the Bible.

When one becomes a child of God they become an adversary of Satan.

***Exemption from the punishments of Original Sin strongly implies exemption from Original Sin itself.***

Hardly. As a redeemed person I am exempt from the ultimate punishment of original sin (the Lake of Fire) that doesn't imply I was immaculately conceived.

Mary like me is redeemed by a Savior. Both of those realities displease the Adversary. Why do you think I was issued armor in Ephesians 6 if there wasn't an enmity thing in play?
51 posted on 06/17/2003 11:26:48 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej
As a redeemed person I am exempt from the ultimate punishment of original sin (the Lake of Fire) that doesn't imply I was immaculately conceived.

We don't believe this. The punishment of original sin is the deprivation of the beatific vision. The punishment of actual sin is the torments of everlasting hell.

No amount of redemption can remove one from the effects of Original Sin. And God cannot coezist with sin. So it is difficult to understand how God could dwell within the womb of a sinner.

54 posted on 06/17/2003 11:48:03 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: drstevej
Mary like me is redeemed by a Savior.

Like all other descendants of Adam, she was subject to the necessity of contracting original sin. But by a special intervention of God, undertaken at the instant she was conceived, she was preserved from the stain of original sin and its consequences. She was therefore redeemed by the grace of Christ, but in a special way—by anticipation.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that she was "redeemed in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son" (CCC 492). She has more reason to call God her Savior than we do, because he saved her in an even more glorious manner!

59 posted on 06/17/2003 12:16:44 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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