Archbishop choice seen as imminent: Pittsburgh's bishop called top candidate

Boston Globe ^ | June 8, 2003 | Walter V. Robinson and Michael Rezendes

[tridentine]

The appointment of Boston's new archbishop is imminent, according to knowledgeable church officials, who said that Bishop Richard G. Lennon knows he is about to be replaced and the archdiocese has already identified at least three sites that may be used for the announcement.

In interviews last week, church officials said they believe that Pope John Paul II's choice to head the most troubled of American archdioceses is likely to be made public this month, with this Tuesday the earliest possible date.

And some church officials privy to internal discussions said they now believe that -- even if the decision has not been finalized -- the most likely choice is Bishop Donald W. Wuerl of Pittsburgh.

[Notwithstanding]

go ahead, sink

often cowards resort to silencing the whistleblower

[sitetest]

Dear sinkspur,

"It must have been the Cadillac!"

LOL!

Nah! I drive a Benz!

"Sitetest, to me,image is very important. I wear a tie to every first call I make on a potential prospect. I always wear a jacket to Mass, if not a tie (nobody wears a tie in my parish)."

I understand. I wear a tie AND A JACKET to every prospect.

"A cleric who leaves the image that he's got access to a lot of money is a scandal."

I guess I have a different perspective from you. I've known a few priests over the years. Fr. "H", who had the big house, drove a Caddy. Fr. "B", our current pastor, a great guy, drives a late-model Buick. Fr. "MH", who taught me in high school, and who was a good priest, also drove a Cadillac. Fr. "W" drove a late-model Buick, if I recall correctly, as well. He also had a really great sound system in his quarters (Yes! I used to go to his rooms alone with him! Can you imagine??), and a few other nice things as well. He also nearly got me to become a priest. He was as good a guy as I ever met.

On the other hand, old Fr. "J" nearly drove me out of the Church. Beat up old non-descript American POS. Fr. "B" drove an old Toyota, and condescended to me when I bought my first Mercedes, "Well, sitetest, I would never buy a car like this, I'm in solidarity with the poor." A few years later, after being assigned to a poor, minority parish in Southeast Washington, he had a nervous breakdown, being in "solidarity with the poor", and retreated to Mommy and Daddy's house in Potomac (ritziest zip code in the region), begging the cardinal not to send him anywhere there were anymore poor folks.

The best priests I've known were men who'd figured out their lives. They were comfortable in their own skins, and didn't seem to have a problem managing their money or their possessions.


sitetest

[sinkspur]

You didn't answer the question about the landscaping. I ask because most of the churches here have lovely gardens. Many are memorials. All are maintained by the parishoners. We have a thing for flowers here. There's something wrong with this?

My family did the landscaping for ten years around St. Maria Goretti Church in Arlington, Texas. No. There's nothing wrong with donating, or accepting, the landscaping.

I have no idea what kind of car the archbishop drives. It's usually complimentary from one of the dealerships.

It should be, as one of my priest friends puts it, a "boring car."

People look at priests and want to be inspired by them. That's why this abuse scandal was such a shock to non-Catholics.

[Desdemona]

It should be, as one of my priest friends puts it, a "boring car."

I actually think the archbishop drives a Caddie, but I really don't know. Not high on my list of priorities.

Now having a car you can be reasonably sure is not going to break down being getting to a pastoral call - THAT would be important. I see a lot of SUV type vehicles. No Suburbans though. And they usually give the older cars to the nuns.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

You're welcome. I actually disagree with you much less than you probably think.

I can think of hundreds of better uses for that money, starting with Catholic elementary school education.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

I can think of hundreds of better uses for that money, starting with Catholic elementary school education.

I'll second that!

[Hermann the Cherusker]

A cleric who leaves the image that he's got access to a lot of money is a scandal.

All to frequently, such a one is actually dipping his hand into the take.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

To which Sheen replied "Just because I'm on a diet doesn't mean I can't look at the menu."

LOL!

There is a story about Cardinal Krol that went something like that. He was walking with a reporter on his 80th birthday, and the interview turned to celibacy. The reporter asked "Your excellency, when is it that you finally overcome lust?" He replied with a smile, "About 80 years old." Just then, a very beautiful woman walked by, and so Cardinal Krol corrected himself with an even wider smile - "Better make that 81."

[Hermann the Cherusker]

Half of what I had in 2000, and anything I don't use in retirement will be left to my wife, or to my grand kids.

I don't get this. Since when do clerics retire? Were I privileged with orders, I'd want to exercise my rights and powers for the good of the faithful as often as possible until I die.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

I don't think Cardinal O'Connor could drive. I thought I read something like that once. Maybe I'm wrong though.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

So I have no problem imagining that a new house on the East Coast could run $650,000 and not be all that huge.

Even around NYC, $650,000 buys a lot of house. Especially out in the distant suburbs. A reasonable rule of thumb these days around NYC and Boston is that somewhere around $250,000 will buy you a 3 bedroom in a reasonable suburb or city neighborhood. $650,000 gets you entrance into the upper-crust suburbs. Around Boston, you could buy a really nice 4 or 5 or 6 bedroom place in Winchester or Belmont or Swampscott or Newton for that price. Around NYC, that would get you a pretty darn nice house in Westchester County or Morris County. Around Philly, you could have entry to almost any part of the Main Line or Huntingdon Valley or Haddonfiled or Moorestown that you wanted except the largest estates. There are very few houses that go for $650,000. Even in northern NJ, it would have to be rather exceptional.

[sinkspur]

The best priests I've known were men who'd figured out their lives. They were comfortable in their own skins, and didn't seem to have a problem managing their money or their possessions.

Well, the priests who most inspired me were men who didn't have many possessions: Msgr. Robert Forliti, who inspired me to the seminary, was a man who did the Holy Hour every day in front of the Blessed Sacrament, and loved to go out for ice cream; Fr. Robert Strittmatter, who was the best confessor I ever had; and Fr. Phil Johnson, my current pastor, who is the most transparent man I've ever met, and who has left behind smoking, and drinking, and overeating.

All these men were guys you wanted to give money to because they looked like they needed it.

[sinkspur]

I actually disagree with you much less than you probably think.

Well, then I will suspend my thinking, because I want to give you the benefit.

All to frequently, such a one is actually dipping his hand into the take.

I've known three priests who went to the race track, to Las Vegas, and to the stock market with parish money.

And the parishioners never knew it.

[Notwithstanding]

I guess you find it important that a priest be materially poor. This is a personal preference for you. You seem to have a litmus test.

Poverty can be quite virtuous.

But poverty is not required of clerics. Celibacy is. Obedience is. Poverty is not.

[sitetest]

Dear sinkspur,

Hey, I've known good priests who were poor, too. ;-)

The Trinitarians who taught me didn't even own personal cars. They sort of had some "fleet Chevrolets" that they used when needed.

I haven't found a relationship between the value of a priest's car, or his other possessions, and how good a priest he seemed to be, neither direct nor inverse.

The priests I've known with a few bucks either inherited it or had pretty good careers before they became priests. And frankly, it's hard not to admire someone like my pastor, who was the general manager of a local, large construction firm, making into six figures, who gave that up to be a priest. Does he still have some money saved from his early days? Yep. Does he ride around on nice wheels as a result? Yep.

Do I begrudge him this? Nope. I think of all that he gave up to serve God and man, rather than the relatively modest amount that he has left.


sitetest

[Land of the Irish]

I will suspend my thinking

I'm biting my tongue.

[sinkspur]

But poverty is not required of clerics. Celibacy is. Obedience is. Poverty is not.

Courtesy is required of all of us.

Let's drop the hostility, ntwtstndg. You're nursing grievances from previous threads. I know you think I'm a screaming liberal, even though I think diocesan priests ought to be frugal, and you don't. And you think we ought to be pushing teenagers into marriage, and I think we ought to be encouraging them to wait until they're at least 22 or older.

We disagree. We can disagree and not be at each other's throats.

Agree?

[Notwithstanding]

I have oftne thought that it takes far more courage for a non-cleric to live a life of poverty. Priests know that they will be taken care of, have a decent dwelling, a car, insurance, pension, etc. as long as they are clerics.

Think of how little there is to worry about when you don't have to pay your own living expenses or save for college or retirement.

I guess my view is that we ought not get so excited about a priest's "poverty". We all know priests or nuns who dont own anything. But the ones I see want for nothing. So, lets be grateful for people that choose to serve God as clerics or nuns, etc. And for those that live ascetic or simple lives. But lets not place thier worth in that poverty or asceticism when doing so actually places too much focus on valuing people based upon their relationship to material things.

[Desdemona]

I guess my view is that we ought not get so excited about a priest's "poverty".

Before I say good night, I think you are correct. What bothers me are the people who live the simple life, deprive themselves of...whatever...and then trumpet it to the world. Where's the humility in that?

If you really want simple, we can pitch tents for the clergy and build a bonfire. But no s'mores. Chocolate and marshmallows is awfully decadant.

I have a long day tomorrow. Good night.

[sitetest]

Dear Notwithstanding,

Uh..., perhaps you've mistakenly posted this comment to the wrong poster, NW. If you haven't noticed, on the substance of this thread, we've sort of been on the same side.


sitetest