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To: Ippolita; ninenot; Salvation; american colleen
What JP2 is saying

The pope's native tongue is not Italian. That would suggest to me that he did not write this himself in Italian. That raises additional questions:

Which language does the pope use to write his addresses?
Does he even write them, or are they dictated to someone else? If so, in which language?
Who translates them into Italian?
Who proofreads them?
Do they proofread them first in their original language or only in Italian?
How many weekly addresses has the pope delivered in the course of his 25 year pontificate?

As the journalist pointed out in the opening of his article:

The people I am referring to seem to go through papal statements in search of errors and scrutinize the Pope’s activities for inappropriate or imprudent actions.

How many of his weekly addresses have you actually listened to ... correction ... read?

Are there any writings by this pope with which you do agree and if so, which ones?

15 posted on 06/06/2003 3:52:42 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: NYer
Somebody writes most of his addresses--who? who knows?

But I do recall an incident--perhaps on one of his trips to America, where he was reading the address in English and came upon a mis-statement. He actually went back and corrected the sentence 'on the fly.'

Smart dude.
25 posted on 06/06/2003 6:25:07 PM PDT by ninenot (Joe McCarthy was RIGHT, but Drank Too Much)
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To: NYer; exodus; ninenot; Salvation; american colleen; Loyalist; maximillian; agitator
JP2 is fluent in many languages; although his mother tongue is not Italian, he writes his speeches himself - in Italian, and often in other languages too.

His official translator is for Latin (Father Reginald Foster); he does have a team of assistants to help with the editing/translating/proof-reading.

His speeches, addresses, enciclics etc. can be found at:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/index.htm

As I live in Rome I have the chance and opportunity to listen (as well as read) his speeches very often.

I am Catholic, and consider what the Pope has to say of paramount importance so I listen closely and read the text; not to find 'imprudence and inapropriateness', but to find comfort and guidance.
As an American citizen, I listen just as closely when the President of the USA speaks then I also print out the text and read it (albeit for different reasons).
Obviously if JP2 says something which is incongruent or unclear in relation to the church's teachings I notice (and so do others); just as I do with the President's words.

I have often been in agreement with JP2 (e.g. Letter to the families 1994) it is only CERTAIN things, most in the last 12 years, which have bothered me and prompted a hightened awareness and attention and sometimes my dissent.

Namely:
a) his stance regarding Fatima;
b) his oblique approach to the Medjugoje issue;

(The specularity of the two, and their implications, I hope are not lost to you - and since I believe this is where the crux of the issue lies I would be very happy to discuss this further maybe in a specific thread for those interested).

The Pope is infallible and aided by the Holy Spirit only when he talks ex-cathedra (something the authour of the article should know). None of the things which bother me (and others) have been spoken ex-cathedra, yet because the Pope says them they carry a weight that is beyond their real scope.
The continuous erosion of tiny portions of the specificity of Roman Catholicism has begun to pall on many people. While I recognize his (political) commitment to the fall of Comunism I fail to understand his reluctance to openly support the Roman Catholic tradition for which he stands.

Were you aware that the mosque which was built in Rome was granted permission to have it's spire built 1 meter taller than the cross of S. Peter's? Fine we don't believe that makes any difference, but the mulim DO; and they run around saying that the crescent moon of Islaam is now dominating Rome.Yet not one church in Saudi Arabia (let alone Mecca or Medina) was asked in compensation. No reciprocity was ever requested.

And why kiss the Koran? or equate the buddhist worry-beads to the rosary?

Look at this quote from the article:

"Take criticisms of the gathering of religions at Assisi, organized by the Pope. Horror is expressed at his alleged encouragement of Hindus, Buddhists, and others to pray to pagan gods. But that is not what he did. Certainly he encouraged them to pray. God is open to all sincere prayer, even though those praying may have confused and erroneous notions of who God is. Nor did the Pope join in prayer with them, as is sometimes insinuated. The groups prayed separately."

Notice: only Hindus and Buddhists are mentioned as if the scandal were about polytheists (Hindu) and atheists (Buddhists); what happenned to the rest? Jews, Muslim, as well as various Christian denominations (Orthodox, Protestant) were also present; they even had shamans.If all are equal why be Catholic or even Christian? We used to pray for the conversion of Jews during every mass (now considered highly politically incorrect and abolished); Islaam is a CONDEMNED PSEUDO-NESTORIAN HERESY (a church in Bologna even portrays Mohammed in Hell, but now the Pope blesses it and KISSES THE KORAN!); Protestants of various denominations are also heretic (especially with regards to the filioque part of the Nicean creed - i.e. Jesus was 100% god as well as 100% man; and the free-will/predestination issue); I have no idea why Buddhist meditation is equated with Christian prayer (Buddhism does not bother with God at all) nor why Nirvana (litteraly in Sanscrit 'eternal extinction') is portrayed as 'paradise' (which implies eternal life).

Notice: "God is open to all sincere prayer, even though those praying may have confused and erroneous notions of who God is."

This conflicts with centuries of the churches teachings, the Pope has NOT said this, yet the gentleman who writes thinks this is so; so do many others.
In the church's view 'Sincere prayer' should apply only to those who are in the impossibility to convert (whether for physical, psychological or cultural constrictions is ininfluent) not for those who have the chance but do not.
They prayed seperately? I have to hope JP2 prayed fervently for the conversion of these gentlemen at Assisi; yet if this is so, how come he has never spent a public word to clearly state what used to be written on every subway wall when I was growing up in NYC? JESUS SAVES. Or better yet ONLY JESUS SAVES.

In a sense it is like the old cergyman issue: do away with skirts for very practical and reasonable motives and next their saying mass bare chested and wearing flowered bermuda shorts.

Do away with a little bit here and another little bit there and soon enough you are getting parish priests saying incongruous things:

e.g. "Jesus, Mohammed and Buddha can be considered in the same way" (It. Jesu Maometto e Buddha possono essere la stessa cosa).

Except Jesus was God (oops! can't say that, it upsets the Lutherans).

"The dead are ressurected in spirit (It. I morti risorgono in spirito)"

What happenned to the resurrection of the body? (oops! can't say that, it upsets to many people).

And pearls like:

"If they go to Medjugorje with good and pius intentions it's can't hurt them (It. Se vanno a Medjugorje con buone e pie intenzioni non gli può far male)".

What? Wasn't it condemned by the ArchBishop of Mostar and the Yugoslav Episcopalian Conference as being unholy and probably satanic?
(oops! not allowed to say that, because the above is apparently JP2's stance on this issue, and buses leave from Rome every day).

I live in Rome and see thing, hear things, notice things, happening everyday which really trouble me so I seek understanding.
I am vigilant.

Did not Jesus say "Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning." (Mr 13:35 KJV).

95 posted on 06/07/2003 6:39:26 AM PDT by Ippolita (Si vis pacem para bellum)
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