What reconciliation? SSPX Demotes Former French Superior

Envoy Encore ^ | 5/28/03 | Pete Vere, JCL

[sinkspur]

Using him as a whip to scourge traditionalism generally--as Sinspur does--is ridiculous.

Why? You use Weakland to scourge the true Church, and Weakland's gone.

You should denounce Williamson, as many of us have denounced Weakland, and every other episcopal enabler of child abuse.

I knew an old monsignor in my early college days who I thought was a wonderful, spiritual man. He told me one day that the Jews were behind all the problems in the world.

I never saw God in him again.

[sitetest]

Dear sinkspur,

More to the point, ultima accused us, you and me, of SLANDERING this sick puppy by quoting him. NOW he admits that the man is the SSPX "hairshirt". Why the original accusation of slander?

We were SLANDERING this character by quoting him!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!


sitetest

[drstevej]

***The Sound of Music can not be considered equally harmful ***

Rome's hills are alive with the sound of Schism
Demanding rubrics that we've used for a 1000 years...

[ultima ratio]

I would NEVER go to Williamson for spiritual guidance anymore than you would go to Mahony. Having said this, however, I will add he is not crazy, nor does he lack friendliness and a certain humility with the lay people he deals with. He is nowhere as extreme in person as he seems to be in writing. But I never thought he was on the right track, just the same. Most of the letters are pretty innocuous--but every now and then a phrase pops out that is pretty noxious. I would say this: if Fellay and the others reconcile with Rome, I would follow Fellay, not Williamson. Those who would side with Williamson would be those of like mind--of which there will be very few in number, in my opinion.

[ultima ratio]

Because there's a difference between finding someone annoying--and believing slander about the person. Do you understand the difference or must it be spelled out slowly?

[sitetest]

Dear ultima,

Truth is the ultimate defense against libel - or slander.

We quoted the man's own words. That isn't slander.

So why would you tell falsehoods about us?

Perhaps that's slander?


sitetest

[sitetest]

Whaddaya think? Have we been slandered?

[St.Chuck]

They have frozen themselves into a time warp!

I've had that impression also. Like the Amish, Mennonites, or Hassidic Jews, they will latch on to the 1950's and stay there. I wonder if they sell "Leave It To Beaver " videos in their chapel bookstores.

[ultima ratio]

I use Weakland as an example of the PAPACY'S refusal to discipline bad bishops. He was symptomatic of a greater failing higher up. Besides, other than airing some rightwing views in a few letters, how does Williamson compare with Weakland who mocked the Catholic faith and pushed the gay agenda in defiance of even Vatican precepts? Williamson's Masses are above reproach. His dealings with others are friendly and considerate--anything but radical. His letters I read and then discard--that pretty much ends it.

[drstevej]

***They have frozen themselves into a time warp!***

Don't tempt me to do a "Let's Do the Mass Warp Again" parody....

[sinkspur]

I would say this: if Fellay and the others reconcile with Rome, I would follow Fellay, not Williamson.

Good for you. There's hope.

[ultima ratio]

Oh, but Sinkspur never used his words--he accused him of Nazi sympathy, without proof, citing Catholicguy, of all people. He claimed Williamson praised the Unibomber, another calumny without basis in fact--Williamson had only praised some of the writings which even the mainstream press found intriguing. This is slander.

[sitetest]

Dear ultima,

You need to read Wildman Williamson's letters a little bit more closely. He is promoting his foaming at the mouth as SSPX teaching:

"However, here is a pointer in the direction of normalcy: any Catholic with the least respect for Tradition recognizes that women should not be priests - can he deny that if few women went to university, almost none would wish to be priests? Alas, women going to university is part of the whole massive onslaught on God's Nature which characterizes our times."

Here's more dreck:

"From which, one must question what kind of queenship can be exercised by Novus Ordo theologians, even conservative. Normally, "conservative" Catholics who have left Tradition are in bad faith, so will be bad teachers, while those who have never known Tradition will be ignorant, and so bad teachers. Both will make a point of "rescuing" a damsel in"schismatic" or "excommunicated" distress. Therefore a Traditional girl putting herself under "conservative" teachers will, to keep her Faith, require a special effort to resist the menfolk whom God designed (and her parents paid) her to follow. She will then be voluntarily so setting her true Catholic Faith against her true feminine nature that one or the other is almost bound to suffer."

Same dreck, different letter:

"If ever there was a sign of the times, surely it was the cloud of smoke choking Manhattan after the terrorist attack of September 11th, and rising slowly into the New York sky from the ruins of the World Trade Center. Everything modern man believes in -capitalism, materialism, globalism - struck down and reduced to a lethal pile of smoking rubble! We pray for the souls suddenly appearing before God, and for their bereaved families. But there is every chance modern man will roll on into World War III.

"That is a religious and not a political calculation. Man proposes, God disposes."

These aren't his "right wing political views". These are his religious views.

He is a moral hazard, as bad as any bishop in the real Catholic Church. That he is charming and kind in person only makes him a greater danger, as he is likely to take in trusting folks with his gentle manner, and they might drink the poison that he spews.

The pope has over 3000 bishops to oversee. If he is unsuccessful in his administration of over 3000 bishops, we may ascribe that to many things; a lack of administrative competence (it would say nothing about his personal holiness, his orthodoxy, or his wisdom to say that administratively, he's not up to snuff); occasional mistakes (I know that you think all the real Catholic bishops are bad, but that's just one more delusion); factors of which we know nothing.

The SSPX has four schismatic bishops. One of them is a bad man who writes evil things and calls them "catholic" teaching. That the SSPX can't find its way to get rid of ONE lousy bishop out of a GRAND TOTAL of FOUR bishops speaks very, very poorly for the SSPX.

The Catholic Church, headed by our Supreme Pontiff, John Paul II, looks good in comparison.

sitetest

[drstevej]

The Mass Warp

(Lyrics by Pope Piel I)

 

It's astounding, trads are fleeing
Madness takes its toll
But listen closely, not for very much longer
SSPXers  will take control

I remember them doing the Mass Warp
Loathing those moments when
Vatican II would hit me and the NO would be calling
Let's do the mass warp again...
Let's do the mass warp again!

Its just a clown on the left
A topless reader the right
Shake hands with your neighbor
Not a Tabernacle in sight
But it's Protestant twist that really drives you insane,
Let's do the Mass Warp again!

[sitetest]

Dear ultima,

I'll let sinkspur speak for himself. Here is what you said (or is it slander for me to quote you?? LOL.):

"Neither you nor sitetest do anything but slander people."

I quoted the whackjob. How is that slander?


sitetest

[jt8d]

Let's stick to the remark you made. I realize that you have a handy tendency to digress, in order to obfuscate the issue, but I am wise to this diversion now. You stated that Pat Buchanan opined Hitler to be a "genius," and you did this shrewdly, deceitfully, and without noting the context of the remark. Now, here in your reply, you again attempt to muddy the waters by bringing up other issues that have no relevance to what YOU did.

Please address the issue at hand: that you misappropriated the "genius" quote for ulterior reasons. Stick to the point, and answer the charge--if you are capable of doing so, without going off on some he said/she said tangent.

[sinkspur]

Buchanan calls Hitler a genius; Bishop Williamson admires Ted Kasczynski, the Unabomber.

Whitewash those any way you want.

Do you think, with all the anti-semitic baggage that swirls around him, that Pat Buchanan might have picked someone else to heap accolades on?

[Aloysius]

And the boy thinks abortion can be stopped if women just wore dresses, instead of pants.

Everything else has failed. Why not try it.

[St.Chuck]

The point of whether the "American" revolution was "justified" is a side issue, for reason only that, in the main, the colonialists were Protestant, and thus inebriated with their own inflated sense of self-worth, which is typical to Protestants by political temper, and reinforced through their materialistic and situational-ethic minded theology.

I am not convinced that Protestant principles as much as enlightenment values were behind the American Revolution and America's Constitution, as some Calvinists would like to believe. But if we do want to give the Protestant's the credit (or in your case the blame), they certainly were convinced of man's natural inclination toward the abuse of power and created a wonderful system of checks and balances, i.e. the federal system, the electoral college, the separate branches of government, a bicameral legislature, and a republic as opposed to a direct democracy. If the Protestants were in possession of the "political temper" you suggest, then they were very much cognizant of it and took pains to avoid it's negative consequences. If you would attribute the revolution to Protestantism, then you would have to appreciate Protestantism's recognition of the very real affects of original sin and the institutions they established that would accomodate that reality.

Why on earth would you believe a king would act as a Catholic, when the Pope cannot be trusted to remain Catholic?