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Churches' goal is unity, not uniformity spokesman for Vatican declares
Church Times ^ | Paul Handley

Posted on 05/28/2003 4:44:35 PM PDT by huskyboy

STRONG HINTS that the path towards unity with Rome was not blocked emerged at a conference in St Albans last Saturday.

In a speech (see right link) that was both open and nuanced, Cardinal Walter Kasper, President of the Pontifical Council for the Promotion of Christian Unity at the Vatican, talked of new interpretations of some of the chief sticking-points: papal authority, eucharistic doctrine, apostolic succession, and the 1896 papal bull that declared that Anglican orders to be invalid.

Cardinal Kasper shared a platform with the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Revd Elizabeth Welch, a former Moderator of the United Reformed Church. For his part, Dr Williams said that ecumenism was "not simply negotiating our way to a formula that we can just about live with. . . Effective, real unity in Christ is when we share in prayer and mission at depth."

About 900 people attended the day-long conference, which had been two years in the planning and was entitled "May They All be One. . . But How?" The Rt Revd Joe Aldred, a Bishop in the Church of God of Prophesy, preached at evensong. The chief focus, though, was on Cardinal Kasper, speaking exactly one month after a papal encyclical restating the ban on intercommunion for Roman Catholics.

The Cardinal suggested that the Churches were entering a new phase in the journey towards unity. True enthusiasm in the decade after the Second Vatican Council had been replaced by disenchantment coupled with what he called "ecumenical activism" — conferences, meetings and symposiums that had produced countless documents. "Who can read all this stuff, and, indeed, who wants to?" the Cardinal asked.

What was needed now, he said, was a period of spiritual ecumenism, a "unity in faith", during which the Churches could assimilate the lessons learned in the past few decades.

Far-reaching consequences
Cardinal Kasper warned against a "mechanical" interpretation of the apostolic succession. "To stand in the apostolic succession is not a matter of an individual historical chain, but of collegial membership in a collegium which, as a whole, goes back to the apostles." This interpretation had "far-reaching consequences" for other Churches, he said. Succession was thus "not a question of an uninterrupted chain, but of the uninterrupted sharing of faith and mission".

Dr Kasper spoke of "a re-evaluation" of Apostolicae Curae, the bull of Leo XIII which declared that Anglican orders were null and void; though he said that "a final solution can be found only in the larger context of full communion in faith, sacramental life and shared apostolic vision".

After the conference, however, he said: "I think it should not be so difficult to come to almost a partial recognition of the episcopal ministry on both sides. We are no longer at the position of Leo XIII with his bull. A partial recognition is there. The Pope gave the Archbishop a gold cross — I have only a silver cross — and this is a symbol which is meaningful. And he has a ministry of oversight, episcope, that is not the same, because we are not in full communion, but we are in a high degree of profound communion."

However, Cardinal Kasper indicated that the Vatican was still worried by the degree of "comprehensiveness" in the Anglican Communion. "Comprehensiveness is a good thing, but it should not be exaggerated. Pluralism should not become a new beatitude added to the sermon on the Mount."

In conversation he said that dialogue was made much more difficult by the existence of different groupings in Anglicanism ("though we will not interfere: this is a problem for the new Archbishop"), citing lay presidency, the ordination of women, and ethical problems such as abortion and homosexual partnerships. (He did not mention women priests in his conference address.)

Dr Williams
DR WILLIAMS urged people to see the ecumenical in the light of Jesus’s own eternal movement to the depths of the Father. The ecumenical task was "to commend the attractiveness of Christ in each other's traditions", recognising "the same eternal prayer being made, the same eternal gifts being given”. For too long the Churches had been saying, "Don't listen to him, listen to me." Mission, said Dr Williams, meant saying "Don't listen to me, listen to Christ, and listen to Christ there."

The Archbishop asked for the development of shared contemplation. Much could be gained by "sitting in silence with someone for quite a long time". He acknowledged the grief and frustration caused by disagreement about the eucharist, in which resided the deepest association with Christ's movement to the Father. "Our inability to share that with one another is inevitably proportionately more painful."

But he said that the eucharist was not the sole sacrament, and the Churches recognised each other’s baptisms — "the sacrament, if you like, of the neighbour". While waiting for full communion, he urged people to come together in contemplation, pilgrimage, festival and service.

Elizabeth Welch
ELIZABETH WELCH spoke of her experience in setting up the ecumenical church in Milton Keynes. There was now a "level of trust and openness which binds us up in our divisions".

She noted several elements that were working against unity. Falling congregational numbers encouraged the strengthening of denominational identity. "Energy goes into making mission happen, rather than in finding ways in which it might be done more effectively in unity with others."


TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS: apostolicsuccession; cardinal; catholiclist; kasper
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Heresy alert! Doesn't the "cardinal" understand that Anglican "orders", as it is right now, remain invalid?

Also, either the Anglican group is in communion with the Church, or it isn't. There is no middle ground here. As it stands presently, the Church sees the Anglican faction as both heretical and schismatic. If the post-conciliar church actually pulls off a merge, it will only add to my evidence that the post-conciliar church is really a newer "church" unaffiliated with the true Church of Christ.

1 posted on 05/28/2003 4:44:35 PM PDT by huskyboy
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To: Loyalist; Aloysius; narses; ultima ratio; Land of the Irish; TradicalRC
ping.
2 posted on 05/28/2003 4:46:47 PM PDT by huskyboy (Introibo ad altare Dei; non ad altare hominis!)
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To: huskyboy
Heresy alert! Doesn't the "cardinal" understand that Anglican "orders", as it is right now, remain invalid?

Kasper isn't Catholic. Ignore everything he says.

3 posted on 05/28/2003 6:13:15 PM PDT by Aloysius
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To: huskyboy
"Cardinal Kasper warned against a 'mechanical' interpretation of the apostolic succession. 'To stand in the apostolic succession is not a matter of an individual historical chain, but of collegial membership in a collegium which, as a whole, goes back to the apostles.'"

Typical modernistic double-speak, taking familiar phrases and ascribing to them new meanings. "Apostolic succession" has always meant actual historical linkage, not "collegial membership"--otherwise the Church's own claims for two thousand years have been elaborate hoaxes. Kasper can feel all the collegiality he wants with Anglican bishops and the Pope can give away all the expensive crucifixes he wants--the Anglican bishops are still laymen dressed up as prelates. This ecumenical nonsense has got to end. It is not winning converts--and it is destroying the Catholic Church.
4 posted on 05/28/2003 6:20:46 PM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: huskyboy; Aloysius; Dajjal; Domestic Church; dsc; ELS; FBDinNJ; Francisco; frozen section; ...
Kasper needs to trade in his "Catholic" red hat for an Anglican red nose:

"The Rev. James Gary Gloster (left) and his consecrators, including the Rt. Rev. Edmond Browning (behind Gloster), presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church in the United States, sport red clown noses during a ceremony at Duke Chapel to ordain Gloster as Suffragan Bishop."

5 posted on 05/28/2003 7:27:14 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: huskyboy
This Kaspar fellow is out there, isn't he?
6 posted on 05/28/2003 7:44:15 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Walter Kasper could well be the next Pope.

Since the new papal election rules allow for a simple majority ballot after several ballots fail to elect a candidate with two-thirds of the vote, the liberal cardinals need only stand firm behind Kasper for a few days and then pick up a few stray cardinals on the simple majority ballot.
7 posted on 05/28/2003 7:57:50 PM PDT by Loyalist (Keeper of the Schismatic Orc Ping List. Freepmail me if you want on or off it.)
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To: Loyalist
Walter Kasper could well be the next Pope.

Bite your keyboard!!!

8 posted on 05/28/2003 8:04:19 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: Land of the Irish
Kasper needs to trade in his "Catholic" red hat for an Anglican red nose

I second the motion.

9 posted on 05/28/2003 8:18:57 PM PDT by ELS
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To: Land of the Irish
Lord, and all this time I thought those noses were added using computer graphics. You mean they were really wearing them?
10 posted on 05/28/2003 8:19:12 PM PDT by dsc
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To: Land of the Irish
Wow. The Greatest Show on Earth.
11 posted on 05/28/2003 8:21:19 PM PDT by TradicalRC (Fides quaerens intellectum.)
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To: huskyboy; GatorGirl; maryz; *Catholic_list; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; Askel5; ...
Card. Kasper is in charge of ecumenical affairs, he is as authoritative as they come regards non-Catholic affairs. (N.B. He is NOT in charge of the SSPX issues nor was he ever in charge of the SSJV regularization.) If his views stand, it will create an enormous schism in the midst of eliminating what that word means. What a conundrum!
12 posted on 05/28/2003 8:30:57 PM PDT by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Carindal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: dsc
You mean they were really wearing them?

Yes

13 posted on 05/28/2003 8:36:20 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: Land of the Irish
What discussion of episcopal etiquette on FR would be complete without the obligatory cheesehead photo?


14 posted on 05/28/2003 8:43:28 PM PDT by Loyalist (Keeper of the Schismatic Orc Ping List. Freepmail me if you want on or off it.)
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To: Loyalist
Heretics cannot be elected to the Supreme Pontificate because they are not members of the Church. Kaspar may run around all he wants in Cardinal's robes, but it does not change his lack of faith.
15 posted on 05/28/2003 10:25:56 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: huskyboy
Bumpus ad summum
16 posted on 05/29/2003 12:47:20 AM PDT by Dajjal
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To: Loyalist
After the clown nose thing, I'm almost afraid to ask...
17 posted on 05/29/2003 1:42:35 AM PDT by dsc
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To: Land of the Irish
I don't think the Anglican's would find Kasper worth of a red nose. After all, they do believe in the Resurrection don't they?
18 posted on 05/29/2003 6:26:37 AM PDT by Aloysius
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To: ultima ratio; Aloysius
"modernistic double speak"

This modernistic double speak soon becomes all-encompassing. Certain factions in the Anglican and Episcopal Churches, mainline Protestant churches and liberal and radical theologians will say "of course we believe in the Resurrection!" What they mean if you delve further is that they don't believe in a physical resurrection but something that took place in our hearts or that Christ's message lives on. Paraphrasing St. Paul, there goes the faith, it's completely in vain.
19 posted on 05/29/2003 6:52:53 AM PDT by k omalley
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To: Loyalist
***Walter Kasper could well be the next Pope.***

Making Pope Piel the logical alternative. A Protestant Pope who will let the traditionalists clean house while he gets in a few rounds each day on the new Totus Tuus Three Par Golf Course that will adorn the Vatican Grounds.

20 posted on 05/29/2003 7:07:37 AM PDT by drstevej
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