More Latin to be used at Mass in Vatican clampdown

Sunday Business Post, Ireland ^ | Kieron Wood

[RobbyS]

As a practical matter, any mass in which English(only)-speakers and Spanish(only)-speakers worship together should be in Latin. Scripture readings should be in both languages. Homilies, of course, would require a priest who speaks both languages. It would encourge breveity, right?

[Hermann the Cherusker]

If there were only twenty-five Novus Ordo seminaries, the very same thing could be said.

Huh? There is what, 5000+ seminarians in the US? 25 seminaries would give 200 per seminary - about what you might see at a decent sized place like St. Charles Borromeo in Philly today, when vocations are way down from 35 years ago.

My figures for 1993 show 75 diocesean seminaries with 4335 students, or about 58 seminarians per seminary; additional there were 138 religious seminaries with 1556 more students, or 11 students per religious seminary. By contrast, in 1966 there were 126 diocesean seminaries with 17,747 students, or about 141 students per seminary; and 479 religious seminaries with 21,862 students, or 46 students per seminary.

That makes the diocesean system running at a maximum of about 35% of capacity, and the religious system running at a maximum of about 23% of capacity. So collapsing it down to 25 seminaries in the whole country would put it back to the capacity per seminary that exisited in the 1961-1967 period. I would hesitate to call that a crisis.

[Aloysius]

Thank you. I stand corrected. I guess that explains the people jumping over the pews to shake hands. Is this affliction related to Tourette's Syndrome?

[sinkspur]

However, this article is talking world-wide, not just in the US.

I understand that seminaries in Africa are filled to overflowing. Given conditions in the continent, that's not surprising.

Seminarians don't starve.

[american colleen]

Ya know, one thing the bishops could do is to close some of the seminaries and consolidate. Save a ton of money, free up some priests for parish work and it would be easier to monitor the fewer seminaries.

But it's kind of like diocesan television... abysmal in most places and costs a lot of $$$ for second rate programming, shutting down (and replacing with EWTN) could free up a few priests for parish work, but NO!!! it seems to be a power issue in both cases.

[american colleen]

Also it is pretty much the exact same every week, aside of the homily which would be in the vernacular. So after a while, you know the words and what is going to happen. Lots of Latin words are similar to the English (or visa-versa, I should say!).

[american colleen]

...and the bishops will likely ignore it as they did Ecclesia Dei.

I wuz gonna knee jerk agree with you and then I thought about it a minute... enforcing Ecclesia Dei involves the potential loss of a lot of $$$. A return to some Latin in the Mass and a halt to abuses (although I think the laity would probably be the enforcers if the priests don't follow) won't cost the coffers a cent.

[JNB]

The FSSP seminary in place now in Nebraska still needs to build a new wing so it can double its capacity. As been mentioned, only 16 of 81 applicants were accepted last year because of space considerations, though to be fair, probably not all of the 81 applicants were not qualified. Once the new wing is built though, the FSSP in the US will probably have on the order of 15-20 ordinations a year. In the space of a couple of deacdes, the numbers of FSSP priests will be built up dramatically.

[RobbyS]

As I indicated, I think of Latin in practical terms. A Latin liturgy, or at least common reponses in Latin (Pater Noster etc) would be useful in a Church in which Spanish is hard more and more.

[Desdemona]

According to the magazine Inside the Vatican, Rome is also planning to issue a major disciplinary document, ending liturgical experimentation. The document ^ already in draft form ^ is expected to encourage wider use of the Tridentine Mass, possibly on a weekly basis, in every parish.

I have a question. So, is this document going to do what, exactly? Mandate Latin Mass or stop the abuses (good luck stopping that train).

It would be nice to see more Latin Masses, but just as nice jsut to fix the language in the NO and put some reverence back into the Sacrafice.

[Desdemona]

Also last week, Pope John Paul set up a newVatican commission to restore Latin to its ``proper place'' in the Roman Church. Cardinal Zenon Grocholewski, the prefect of the Congregation for Catholic Education, will head the commission. Grocholewski is said to be more fluent in Latin than in his native Polish.

This has to be a good sign.

[jobim]

Since you mention EWTN & the bishops in one breath, maybe you know whether the bishops have ever, or do at present, support EWTN?

I am curious because at Mass this past Sunday we were all given envelopes for some US bishops fund, and one of the things they mentioned the money would be for is Catholic programming on cable & network TV.

I immediately ripped up the envelope, assuming they had never helped EWTN, but I suppose I should find out before I find myself disdainful of the US bishops conference for yet one more thing.

[RobbyS]

Seminarians don't starve. During the Middle Ages, monasteries were also havens for people who wanted to get ahead in the world. This was bad? The Church had available a lot of talent and it helped build a new civilization on the ruins of Rome and Greece. Maybe Africa will be equally lucky.

[sinkspur]

The Church had available a lot of talent and it helped build a new civilization on the ruins of Rome and Greece. Maybe Africa will be equally lucky.

One can only hope and pray.

Seminaries bulge in poor countries...I'm sure you can figure it out.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

I believe it is termed "Paulette's Syndrome". It is a mysterious afflication which strikes otherwise rational people and turns them into strident religious liberals.

[BlackElk]

When Pope John Paul II issued his document urging bishops to cooperate by making available the Tridentine Mass to those attached to it, he made a point of his pastoral concern for those who wished to worship in the old rite. I have every confidence that he will extend the same concern to those who, like you, wish to worship in the vernacular at Novus Ordo Masses.

I think you will also find that many who prefer the Tridentine Mass were personally hurt by the way the old Mass was summarily suppressed and do not wish to see that sort of hurt inflicted on those of fellow Catholics whose spirituality is better reflected by the vernacular and the Novus Ordo.

God bless you and yours.

[BlackElk]

Materialists and chronic dissident AmChurch types have difficulty dealing with the explosion of orthodox vocations compared to the the obvious fact that AmChurch is barely able to recruit 1/3 of the seminarians it used to recruit and that AmChurch seminary officials are constantly whining about the conservatism of the seminarians they do have. Can the termites in the AmChurch ranks spell "generation gap" as the aging revolutionaries die off and are replaced by actual Catholic priests. The AmChurch dream of wreckovating the Church generally is dead. The next conclave should seal the deal and start the long overdue purge.

A good transition strategy is to bring in Third World priests who can evangelize the AmChurch as missionaries of the actual Faith and bring Catholicism back to our country in preparation for this new generation of home-grown priests. There are several African and Asian priests in the Rockford Diocese whose orthodoxy and zeal are beyond question.

Also be it noted that there are numerous Tridentine seminaries here and abroad training Tridentine priests and that diocesan priests are beginning to learn the Tridentine in preparation.

[Salvation]

Some threads citing increases in vocations:

Catholic archdiocese of Washington [D.C.] has largest ordination class in 14 years

Roman Catholic friar community growing

Retiring priests pose problem for the Archdiocese of Boston

[Salvation]

And some threads about the new orthodoxy/conservative base that is being built as we type:

THE NEW FAITHFUL: WHY YOUNG ADULTS ARE EMBRACING CHRISTIAN ORTHODOXY

Vatican to reinforce Catholic orthodoxy, Pope's advisors say traditional values have weakened

Keeping faith: Catholic college, students reject mainstream America - and the mainstream church

Generation X and the Return to Christian Orthodoxy [A Surprise Trend]

[Ippolita]

HALLELUIA!