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To: sinkspur; ELS; BlackElk; Aquinasfan; NYer; Catholicguy; Desdemona; maryz; patent; narses; ...
Fr. D's analysis of "actuosa participatio" can be the topic of a long discussion. He leans toward the translation "active" which is not precisely accurate. A better word would be "actual" and some very learned theologians have interpreted this in the sense of 'metanoia,' a 'conversion'or 'conformance' of oneself to Christ.

This aside, the utilization of the 'dialogue' Mass prior to V.II was a fruit of the liturgy movement, and a good one. Although people were to respond in Latin (and they did,) few complained of "not understanding," as their Missals were quite plainly in both English and Latin, side-by-side.

The complaint voiced by Sinkspur (the Rosary ladies) is accurate, but voiced in a manner which tends to overstate the problem. There were a number who said the Rosary. There were a number who fell asleep. There were a number who came late/left early. So what? There are those, TODAY, who fall asleep/don't sing/talk between themselves.

We will always have those who don't SEEM to "participate" at Mass--or don't even seem to PRAY at Mass. What shall we do about that?

The answer of some was, in effect, reductio ad absurdum, and they managed to eliminate, almost root and branch, the idea of "sacred time/sacred space," beginning with elimination of the sacral language and proceeding with the elimination of sacred music, then going far beyond both--to the elimination of the Tabernacle as the center of sight and worship.

This has led to blue-jeaned, shorts-attired, T-shirt & sneakers worshippers and, as one would expect, a somewhat casual treatment of the King of the Universe in ways both minor and major. Yet this is applauded as "active" participation.

Go figure.

20 posted on 05/20/2003 8:50:05 PM PDT by ninenot (Joe McCarthy was RIGHT, but Drank Too Much)
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To: ninenot
Thanks for the ping, and your thoughts...occasionally I have fallen asleep praying the rosary...my mother told me that if I did, the angels would finish it for me...
28 posted on 05/20/2003 10:03:55 PM PDT by Judith Anne (*_____* if you're psychic...)
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To: ninenot
Christos Voskrese!

We will always have those who don't SEEM to "participate" at Mass--or don't even seem to PRAY at Mass. What shall we do about that?

This caught my eye. The answer lies in a little secret that the Church has learned over the Centuries (and seemingly has forgotton recently here in America).

Other than offer a dignified Mass - do nothing. That is, let individual people drift in and out of "participation" as God calls them to. That is one of the benefits of chant - people can drift into it at any time and out again for whatever reasons. Reasons known only to them. It's when you start trying to "force" "the people" that the troubles soon begin. Think of all the games played by music leaders (leaders of music?) - oftentimes well intentioned people who took classes, etc., etc. - trying to get "the people" to sing. Frustration in all parties involved.

Just allow Christ to offer His Sacrifice. A sober, dignified, mysterious event happens. Each individual needs the freedom to absorb it "where they are at".

Of course, the foregoing gets to the heart of all the abuses generally encountered at many "modern" Masses.

31 posted on 05/21/2003 12:11:59 AM PDT by TotusTuus ( Voistinu Voskrese!)
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