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To: ultima ratio
There is a huge difference in the way the concept of sacrifice is used. In classic theology there is a destruction--an immolation of a victim--in other words, a repeat of the original sacrifice, over and over, for as many times as there are Masses.

Are you sure you mean "repeat"? Cause I definitely disagree with you if you think Christ is sacrificed over and over.

In the new theology, there is no destruction and the death of Christ is merely memorialized. In the first case, the sacrifice is PRESENT and offered to the Father; in the second case, the sacrifice is a historical reference that is being commemorated.

I'm sure you've read many schismatic books that tell you this, but it isn't true. The NO Mass features the re-presentation of the Sacrifice of Christ to the Father.

Not only does the N.O., for instance, use the term "sacrifice" differently from Catholic usage in the past, but it has dismantled the ancient tripartite sacrificial structure of the Mass as well--oblation (Offertory); immolation (Consecration) and consummation (Communion) in favor of the commemorative meal structure. This is why the Jewish prayer before meals was substituted for the Offertory and why the assembly itself is the prime focus of the priest and not the sacrifice to God the Father.

Again, you say all this without any evidence, and against the words and gestures of the Mass itself. This is why it is difficult to take those such as you seriously.

SD

265 posted on 05/20/2003 5:50:35 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
Check with the Council of Trent which called the Mass an unbloody Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross, continuously reenacted. This is very fundamental Catholicism. If you believe otherwise, you are worshipping as a Protestant--which is what the Novus Ordo is all about. You actually prove my case.

You say I need evidence for what I have said about the elimination of the tripartite sacrificial structure that has been eliminated by the Novus Ordo. But it is self-evident. The Offertory was thrown out by the Novus Ordo fabricators--just as Luther did five hundred years ago when he decided to dismantle the old Mass. A Jewish mealtime prayer of thanksgiving--the berakoth--has been substituted in the Novus Ordo--facing the people, again like Luther. And this is only the half of it. The entire thrust of the old Mass as a Sacrifice in propitiation for our sins has been gutted. The new Mass celebrates a universal salvation; the old Mass makes clear our sinfulness and need for personal redemption. This is why there is a constant plea for the intercession of the saints. The new Mass makes no mention of such intercessions.

Read the text more closely and then study some of the background by experts like Klaus Gamber. You will see they corroborate what I have said. Your problem is you don't understand what has happened and think because a word ("sacrifice") is tossed around that has ended the issue. But this isn't true.

One of the problems is the subtlety of the trickery used to pull one over on the faithful and suppress or subvert Catholic teachings. Words are used which no longer retain their old meanings. This is still another reason why Latin is essential--to keep meanings stable and uncorrupted, which can't happen in the vernacular which is living and constantly changing.
274 posted on 05/20/2003 9:31:20 AM PDT by ultima ratio
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