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When Priests Don't Run the Parish
Los Angeles Times ^
| May 18, 2003
| Larry B. Stammer
Posted on 05/18/2003 4:18:48 PM PDT by Maximilian
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To: Alberta's Child; Aloysius; AniGrrl; Antoninus; Bellarmine; Canticle_of_Deborah; Dajjal; ...
PING.
When all other solutions have been tried and failed, maybe they'll try orthodox Catholicism. If there's anybody left in San Bernardino to try it.
2
posted on
05/18/2003 4:26:09 PM PDT
by
Loyalist
(Keeper of the Schismatic Orc Ping List. Freepmail me if you want on or off it.)
To: Diago; narses; Loyalist; BlackElk; american colleen; saradippity; Polycarp; Dajjal; ...
If there are any ostriches left with their heads in the sand, it is time to wake up. The New Church has big plans for you, and it doesn't involve anything that resembles the Catholic Church.
The same demographic realities exist in virtually every single diocese. And the same modernists are pushing the same solution in every diocese. Coming soon to your parish: a laywoman as pastoral administrator who "values the opinion" of the priest who is brought in occassionally to say the magic words.
And if you don't like it, note that they don't care -- they are perfectly happy if you leave. The nun running the one parish says that all those who objected have left the parish. Tens of millions of Catholics have voted with their feet since Vatican II, but these revolutionaries just don't care. Better that they should have uncontested control of a smaller church than have a larger church which opposes their revolution.
To: Maximilian; GatorGirl; maryz; *Catholic_list; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; ...
Like Arianism, Modernism will fall.
4
posted on
05/18/2003 4:33:24 PM PDT
by
narses
(Christe Eleison)
To: Maximilian
Parishioners who remain unhappy probably left long ago, she said.... ... unless there is no where else to go.
What a depressing article. I hear this all the time from my own parish pulpit. Instead of explaining the reward of being a servant of the servants, the focus is on the coming complete collapse of the priesthood.
Close all seminaries and open up 10 or so throughout the country. Chanceries can be a waste of a priest who is shuffling papers and not in a parish. I know this firsthand.
Welcome the FSSP in every diocese. One of the saddest things I've seen around here is the day a local FSSP priest said his first Mass in our one Tridentine parish (servicing an archdiocese with over 2 million Catholics it's a regular NO parish with a Sunday noontime Latin Mass) and he went elsewhere for his priestly career as there is no FSSP here. He is a late vocation and a local guy who was inspired by attending that very same Tridentine while he was in college. I am sure he would have been thrilled to stay local.
OTOH. One of the hardest things we have facing us as Catholic Christians is the APATHY in the pews. EEM's? Most people don't care whether they receive Communion from a priest or not. Eucharistic Adoration? Count on the same dozen or so people to attend. Rosary? Same dozen people. Let's face it. As long as there is a priest to marry us in a pretty church ceremony, a ton of Catholics are unconscience the rest of the time.
The priesthood is certainly under attack from all fronts. But the saddest thing is that it is being undermined by the very same men who made a vocation of the priesthood and now look for replacements in all the wrong places.
/rant over.
To: Maximilian
Tens of millions of Catholics have voted with their feet since Vatican II, but these revolutionaries just don't care. Better that they should have uncontested control of a smaller church than have a larger church which opposes their revolution. Exactly right. They are like the "high and dry" Churchmen of 18th Century England whose bloodless Christianity gave rise to Methodism. Many Catholics have left the Churc for evangelicalism since they saw that so many priests and nuns had rejected the long tradition of Catholicism and offered nothing more substantial than liberal Protestantism.
6
posted on
05/18/2003 4:54:11 PM PDT
by
RobbyS
(uks)
To: Maximilian
And if you don't like it, note that they don't care -- they are perfectly happy if you leave. Unfortunately, I don't think the vast majority of the people filling the pews really care. They have lost respect for the priesthood (probably because few priests actually respect the institution anymore). Some layperson or renegade nun is more likely to tell one to keep practicing birth control, don't worry about Confession and don't worry about divorce.
Most are probably filling the pews on Sunday to either avoid committing a mortal sin or to avoid some social stigma associated with going to Starbucks to read the Sunday newspaper rather than to church. They probably don't care who their worship leader is.
7
posted on
05/18/2003 5:35:38 PM PDT
by
Aloysius
To: Maximilian
Right off the bat, I see a problem. Canon Law provides for a pastor. No pastor -- no pastoral council.
Therefore, no deacons, sisters, laity can run a parish.
I can get the Canon Law reference if you wish.
Now I must admit I have not read the entire article. I am only reacting to the title and the first few lines.
8
posted on
05/18/2003 5:57:14 PM PDT
by
Salvation
(†With God all things are possible.†)
To: Maximilian
**And if you don't like it, note that they don't care**
This is the scary part!
9
posted on
05/18/2003 6:07:50 PM PDT
by
Salvation
(†With God all things are possible.†)
To: Aloysius
Most are probably filling the pews on Sunday to either avoid committing a mortal sin or to avoid some social stigma associated with going to Starbucks to read the Sunday newspaper rather than to church. IOW, most Catholics who go to the Novus Ordo mass don't love God as much as you, who are a member of a sect OUTSIDE the Church.
Aren't you relieved that you are not like the rest of men?
10
posted on
05/18/2003 6:18:32 PM PDT
by
sinkspur
To: sinkspur
Aren't you relieved that you are not like the rest of men? How long have you considered yourself a man?
11
posted on
05/18/2003 6:35:00 PM PDT
by
Aloysius
To: Aloysius
How long have you considered yourself a man? It's not about me, Pharisee.
12
posted on
05/18/2003 6:36:34 PM PDT
by
sinkspur
To: sinkspur
Sinkspur, why do you remain so bitterly set against the SSPX, when it appears the Holy Father is trying to reconcile with them?
Do you really think that Jesus is more pleased by the gum-chewing, butt-cheek-displaying spectacles we see in many churches than by a sincerely reverent SSPX Mass?
You chide them for pride and holier-than-thou attitude, but it looks to me like they are sincerely trying to be more reverent than thou art.
13
posted on
05/18/2003 6:37:20 PM PDT
by
dsc
To: dsc
Sinkspur, why do you remain so bitterly set against the SSPX, when it appears the Holy Father is trying to reconcile with them? The SSPX is outside the Church, in schism; otherwise, why the need for "reconciliation"?
You chide them for pride and holier-than-thou attitude, but it looks to me like they are sincerely trying to be more reverent than thou art.
Reverence? Is that virtue higher than obedience and union with Rome?
14
posted on
05/18/2003 6:46:50 PM PDT
by
sinkspur
To: sinkspur
"The SSPX is outside the Church, in schism"
So you say, but I've seen different assertions.
"otherwise, why the need for "reconciliation"?"
Schism is not the only sort of dispute there is.
"Reverence? Is that virtue higher than obedience and union with Rome?"
That depends on what Rome gets up to. The Holy Father is infallible when speaking ex cathedra, but that doesn't mean that everyone in the Vatican is infallible in every pronouncement.
15
posted on
05/18/2003 6:51:05 PM PDT
by
dsc
To: sinkspur
I would like to add that, where there's a conflict between reverence and "obedience and union with Rome," something is wrong somewhere.
16
posted on
05/18/2003 6:52:26 PM PDT
by
dsc
To: dsc
I would like to add that, where there's a conflict between reverence and "obedience and union with Rome," something is wrong somewhere. No there isn't. Reverence means nothing if it's not rooted in the truth.
17
posted on
05/18/2003 7:00:05 PM PDT
by
sinkspur
To: Maximilian
Sr. M.Beummer stated, "Parishioners who remain unhappy probably left long ago"!! Inquiring minds would like to know in her case, What type of a catholic stayed behind ??? After a hiatus of many a year I came back and was simply appaled at the lack of respect shown during the Mass. For a moment it seemed like a pentecostal revival with all the indiscriminate gestures, reverence for the Eucharist seemingly amiss. Female EU's doling out the Eucharist, as one poster described, as if she were at a poker game. I'm wondering just what the Bishop's agenda in all of this is?
18
posted on
05/18/2003 7:04:03 PM PDT
by
ejo
To: dsc
Schism is not the only sort of dispute there is. The SSPX does not accept the judgment of the Holy Father on Vatican II or the Novus Ordo. For that, and because their founder ordained bishops outside the domain of the Holy Father, they are in schism.
Don't be surprised if, after a universal indult is instituted, that the SSPX remains outside the Church.
19
posted on
05/18/2003 7:05:34 PM PDT
by
sinkspur
To: Maximilian
Well, max, not where I live. Not by a longshot. This archdiocese has at least one priest per parish.
My parents' parish has two who are older and neither is well and, truthfully, the church secretary sees to it that things get done and paid on time, but she's not on any kind of power trip.
And we have 8 being ordained next Saturday.
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