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To: Gamecock; oldcodger; LiteKeeper; ksen; OrthodoxPresbyterian; Jerry_M; the_doc; CCWoody; ...
I am having a hard time understanding this article..it seems the author is saying that Calvin believed that baptism grants justification (by infusion?)???

That is far different than the traditional covenential teaching found in Presbyterian churchs today..
5 posted on 05/10/2003 10:04:05 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
Baptism is an ingrafting into Christ, but it is not a "get into heaven free" token. Faith is still our justification- indeed, for baptism to be of any effect at all towards us the reciever of it must possess a lively, enduring faith.

That is far different than the traditional covenential teaching found in Presbyterian churchs today...

Calvin's high view of the sacrament has been, either conciously or unconciously, rejected by many if not most of his heirs these days.

Baptismal Efficacy and the Reformed Tradition: Past, Present, and Future, from the same source as the one above, delves further into the historic Reformed baptismal positions.

6 posted on 05/10/2003 11:13:58 AM PDT by Cleburne (a sinner)
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To: Cleburne; RnMomof7
I am having a hard time understanding this article..it seems the author is saying that Calvin believed that baptism grants justification (by infusion?)??? That is far different than the traditional covenential teaching found in Presbyterian churchs today...

I believe that it is more correct to say, Calvin believes that Baptism respresents Justification (by imputation).

We shouldn't just "take the author's word" for it, even though I am sure he is making an honest attempt to analyze Calvin's theology. We should read the Calvin citations in question, for ourselves.

It is true that Calvin had a "high view" of the Baptismal Sacrament. But we can't just say, "Calvin had a high view of the Baptismal Sacrament" and leave it at that, as thought he were practically Roman Catholic on the matter. Calvin did indeed have a "high view" of the Baptismal Sacrament, but it definitely was NOT Roman Catholic.

Re-read the citations in question -- with my emphasis in bold, as a Presbyterian Calvinist:

In Calvin's view, then, Baptism serves our Faith as it serves our confession before men... it confirms that which it symbolizes, as a token and proof which shows us our mortification in Christ.

Baptism does not "grant" faith. It serves Faith, it confirms Faith, it shows and symbolizes Faith... but nowhere does Calvin ever imply that it "grants" Faith. Mainly because, Calvin himself does not believe that Baptism "grants" faith -- rather, it "arouses, nourishes, and confirms faith" as a true Means of Grace (that is, a "sacrament")

As such, Calvin's view -- though highly sacramental -- was in some ways closer in theology to his AnaBaptist Opponents than to the Roman Catholics around him.

The disagreement, of course, would be whether or not it is true, as Calvin maintained, that the Infant Children of faithful believers could recieve the Gift of Faith even in infancy, and thus be accounted legitimate claimants to the "arousing, nourishing, and confirming of our faith" which is imparted in Baptism.

To which Calvinist Presbyterians can only cite the example of John the Baptist, and affirm: "Guilty as Charged". We believe that God is Faithful in his Promises to obedient Christian Evangelists; and likewise, We believe that God is Faithful in his Promises to obedient Christian Parents.

But we do not believe (and neither did Calvin) that Baptism "grants" faith. Rather, the sacrament serves for the "arousing, nourishing, and confirming" of that Faith which has already been imparted to Covenant Children... even in their mother's womb.

best, op

51 posted on 05/12/2003 9:50:12 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done our Duty)
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