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To: marshmallow
Yes, it was the last Supper that caused the Crucifixion.

For your metaphor to be appropriate, there should have been a Pentecost 40 days after Vatican II. And in fact for 40 years now, the liberals have been CLAIMING a new Pentecost. But where are the fruits of the Holy Spirit? We've been waiting 40 years now for them to show up.

By the time 40 years had passed after the Ressurection, Christianity had already been spread around the known world. The apostles had already testified to the presence of the Holy Spirit through their faith, through their miracles, through their testimony, through their martyrdoms. The Catholic Faith had been established on the firm foundation of the Apostles' Creed and the inspired teaching of St. Paul.

On the other hand, you might want to call Vatican II the anti-Pentecost. All of these fruits of the Spirit have disappeared. And trying to blame enemies outside the Church just won't wash when we see that the entire program was enacted by the Catholic bishops themselves. Nor should you be solaced by the decisive actions of Pope St. Pius X. He proved that proper use of hierarchical authority will destroy a heretical movement. If the post-Vatican II innovations are still with us, and still worse than ever (refer to today's thread on the CTA liturgy), then that is objective evidence of a failure of appropriate governance.

8 posted on 05/06/2003 10:59:35 AM PDT by Maximilian
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To: Maximilian
My metaphor depends on no knew Pentecost to be appropriate.

It is simply a paraphrase of your argument, with names and places changed, that because unprecedented Event A occurred in close temporal proximity to unprecedented Event B they must therefore be causally related.

I chose that particular metaphor because of its potent Christian symbolism. I could just as easily have chosen the juxtapostion of the election of George Bush and the occurence of 9/11..

9 posted on 05/06/2003 11:42:44 AM PDT by marshmallow
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